Welcome to ScubaBoard, an online scuba diving forum community where you can join over 205,000 divers diving from around the world. If the topic is related to scuba diving, this is the place to find divers talking about it. To gain full access to ScubaBoard (and make this large box go away) you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:
Participate in over 500 dive topic forums and browse from over 5,500,000 posts.
Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
Post your own photos or view from well over 100,000 user submitted images.
Gain access to our free classifieds marketplace to buy, sell and trade gear, travel and services.
Use the calendar to organize your events and enroll in other members' events.
Find a dive buddy or communicate directly with scuba equipment manufacturers.
All this and much more is available to you absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!
NEW for 2014 Access SBlogbook for members. It allows you to directly upload data from your dive computer, validate your logs digitally, link your dives to photos, videos, dive centers (9,000 on file), fishes (14,000 on file) and much more.
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact the ScubaBoard Support Team.
Has anyone ever really looked at the curriculums of these different agencies or others for that matter. Have you noticed how similar they are and the differences. PADI although they still call it AOW on the cert card has changed the program to Adventures in Diving. SDI requires that you complete 4 specialties and have 25 logged dives before being considered AOW. Yet I wonder that when looking at all the different agencies why do I not see any new secret skills. I guess it all comes back to the instructor/diveshop as to the quality of instruction a diver gets. PADI is the largest agency because of their system in the early years and their marketing, NAUI, SSI and SDI all have great programs. CMAS,YMCA and ACUC have longer but good programs as well. When I see a diver I have no idea what agency they have been trained through. I can in some cases fiqure out who their instructor was but until I see the card the agency remains a mystery. I have seen bad divers from all the above agencies and I have seen some good ones. We have seen this type of agency bashing on SB many times, Ladies, Gentleman lets get over it. Lets agree to disagree or to look at the individual diver and their particular instructor rather than poking the 60 psi finger at the agency.......
Last edited by GDI; December 19th, 2003 at 01:23 PM.
I have seen bad divers from all the above agencies and I have seen some good ones. Lets agree to disagree or to look at the indiviaul diver and their particular instructor rather than poking the 60 psi finger at the agency.......
I totally agree -- I have also seen absolutely unprepared divers from all the agencies & I have seen excellent divers from all agencies.
Seems to me too..its the instructor & NOT the agency.
PADI/DSAT Technical Instructor Trainer #4612
Cave, CCR, Advanced Wreck and Trimix
Training Director for the NSS Cave Diving Section www.cavediveflorida.com
I am not bashing any particular agency here, but Walter and Mike Ferrara have both pointed out problems where someone operating within the standards can produce unsafe divers and instructors. I realize that any instructor that I work with will temper those standards with common sense.
The basic standard that I like that I don't see printed enough is IANTD's standard where "ATTITUDE" is listed in the standards and that an instructor doesn't feel forced that they have to pass anyone for anything if they can do the skills. I wish that more agencies had the statement that "you pay for training. You EARN certifications."
But, the good instructors don't seem to run into this very often for some reason. They inspire their students to want to learn if the student has the motivation. So overall, I feel that standards could stand some improvement, but as they are written by humans and humans aren't perfect, neither will the standards ever be perfect. They will always need to be tweaked depending on what the times are. The only constant in life is change, right.
This is why I avoid any bashing of any agencies standards, classes, etc. like the plague. They all have their areas where they are better than the others and also have their areas where they are not so good. In general, I have to agree that I have seen good and bad instructors from any of the three major agencies in the United States. Likewise, I have seen good and bad divers from all three.
A Diver's Got to know their limitations.-->Harry Callahan (paraphrased to meet intent)
Don't blame the agency, blame the INDUSTRY. (That would be US)
When factoring in GREED, the fast buck shoots us all in the foot. Courses are cheaper (This is not a good thing) corners are being cut to push through numbers.
"The Devil In a Box" is simply this: Factor in the above, Instructors are left with a decision, Make the course longer, charge more for it, train better divers and end up paying to teach, or go the "shake-n-bake" route and stay afloat in the numbers crunch. (Insert Jerry Maguire: SHOW ME THE MONEY)
Until the industry decides it will COLLECTIVELY raise standards and prices (I don't see this happening anytime soon) this will always been an issue in the industry as a whole.
Where to point the finger? PADI, SSI, SDI, NAUI, YMCA, ACUC, CMAS, etc, they don't suck, These agencies are just trying to stay alive while WE set the standards, the prices and compromise the same... We who cut the corners, push the numbers, etc, WE SUCK. We will continue to suck for as long as we sell "Diver In A Box" to the masses.
**Footnote*** After I re-read what I wrote, I felt so strongly about it, I submitted it to NAUI "Sources" for publication.
Last edited by GQMedic; December 19th, 2003 at 04:14 PM.
DIMW (Doing It My Way)
Dive naked, sharks love hotdogs!
Nitrogen Narcosis, the OTHER lite beer.
Member of S.A.P.S.
(Scubadivers Against Pink S#!t)