Check dives, private DMs, and local/shop policies

[Quero]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

This thread has been split off from the discussion of a diver who disappeared in Cozumel Mexico, which can be found here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/443851-diver-lost-today.html
Please review the special rules for posting in this forum in order to keep it a friendly, learning zone.

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[jknapp]

Accidents do happen to novice as well as experienced divers. I've been diving Cozumel with Dive Paradise (for over 25 years) and BlueXTSea. I have logged over 5000 dives there. I've found both of these companies to be extremely safety conscious.

Please don't place blame anywhere, accidents happen. Placing blame doesn't help the victim or the survivors. I own a dive company and always suggest that novice divers pay for a private Divemaster to improve their experience and safety in any location, but especially locations with known current and drift diving. Diving is no more dangerous than most other adventure sports but the environment is less forgiving. ALL divers should always be prepared to self rescue or abort a dive at any time they feel uncomfortable with their skills or the conditions.

 

[Just Deb]

You're absolutely right about the private divemaster. I've been on boats with newer divers who have had them and those who didn't but needed them. Your skill level is self-reporting, though. I dove on a boat at Christmas with a father and son who didn't take advantage of the free shore tank on their arrival day to check equipment and adjust weights (and discover that they really didn't know how to dive). So on our boat, we all had to wait and drift apart on the surface because they hadn't done so. Underwater, they didn't know how to kick - thought they were riding bicycles - and slowed everyone down even though I honestly am quite satisfied with slower dives. By the end of the second dive, they were marginally better. When I asked later at the dive shop about them I was told they had been recommended to get a private divemaster but declined because they "weren't beginners."

 

[Mike]

FWIW - Bonaire - check out dive prior to diving is requirement if diving in the marine park by STINAPA. I dislike more rules and regulations anywhere, but with the conditions and popularity of Cozumel, I have to wonder...

 

[Christi]

You're absolutely right about the private divemaster. I've been on boats with newer divers who have had them and those who didn't but needed them. Your skill level is self-reporting, though. I dove on a boat at Christmas with a father and son who didn't take advantage of the free shore tank on their arrival day to check equipment and adjust weights (and discover that they really didn't know how to dive). So on our boat, we all had to wait and drift apart on the surface because they hadn't done so. Underwater, they didn't know how to kick - thought they were riding bicycles - and slowed everyone down even though I honestly am quite satisfied with slower dives. By the end of the second dive, they were marginally better. When I asked later at the dive shop about them I was told they had been recommended to get a private divemaster but declined because they "weren't beginners."

That is why the dive shops need to band together and set guidelines! I have minimum requirements and require a Private DM if certain factors apply/don't apply - the "we are not beginners" would not fly with me if they hadn't met certain requirements. Myself and my crew have also been known to require a private DM AFTER the first day and/or for subsequent dive days for a diver that was unable to descend/ascend without holding a proper safety stop, could not manage buoyancy - or who were otherwise a danger to themselves or others. Arrogance serves absolutely no purpose in this sport when it comes to experience. It's OK to be a beginner - we have all been there at one time - but be honest about it, acknowledge it, heed the advice of those who ARE professionals and see "experienced" divers every single day and put your safety (and the safety and enjoyment of others on the boat) over your ego and pride!!! I promise, you (collectively speaking) and every other diver on board will enjoy the dive 100% more!

 

[redacted]

While we are thinking guidelines, there are probably some other no cost steps that can be taken to reduce risks such as some organization of the group of divers following the DM/guide. I usually like to be last (or close to last) in the group. On the selfish side, I get to see everything the other divers find plus my own finds. But it also allows me to keep track of the other divers (except for Flo and her buddy); something the guide may have a real hard time doing. The idea of losing a diver and no one noticing is a shame.

 

[Ron Lee]

That is why the dive shops need to band together and set guidelines!

Christi, that may be something that I suggested after the March 2012 cruise ship diver fatality. I can't honcho it. Someone needs to stand up there and take charge.

I have minimum requirements and require a Private DM if certain factors apply/don't apply

I adopted that as a suggestion for many folks new to Cozumel. So when people see me make that comment, it was/is 100% an adoption of the Blue XtSea policy.

 

[Dave Dillehay]

I happen to think that the use of a private DM for new divers is a good idea and promote that. However not many divers are going to pony up another $50-60 if they feel pretty confident. Our policy, and one that could be standardized as well, is to limit first day divers that we don't know, no matter the log book entries, to non threatening sites such as Palancar Gardens as long as the currents are OK. Once they have demonstrated their diving skills and the Dive INstructor has verified them, we then assign them to an appropriate boat for their remaining dives. IN some rare cases we require a private DM or refuse to take them out again...it happens!


Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

 

[Oldbear]

...Our policy,...,is to limit first day divers that we don't know, no matter the log book entries, to non threatening sites such as Palancar Gardens as long as the currents are OK. Once they have demonstrated their diving skills and the Dive INstructor has verified them, we then assign them to an appropriate boat for their remaining dives. ...

Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

I personally like such a policy. Yes, I know that once a diver is "certified" they should be able to make the correct decisions and dive safely. But the reality is there are quite a few "certified" divers who have let their skill and general dive knowledge deteriorate over time. While they might have been a compliant diver when they passed their OW course, they are far from remaining a competent diver.

In regards to the lost diver, Ms. Tamara, my prayers are with you...

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I happen to think that the use of a private DM for new divers is a good idea and promote that. However not many divers are going to pony up another $50-60 if they feel pretty confident. Our policy, and one that could be standardized as well, is to limit first day divers that we don't know, no matter the log book entries, to non threatening sites such as Palancar Gardens as long as the currents are OK. Once they have demonstrated their diving skills and the Dive INstructor has verified them, we then assign them to an appropriate boat for their remaining dives. IN some rare cases we require a private DM or refuse to take them out again...it happens!


Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

Thanks! I will never be diving with Aldora Divers! To brag about disregarding completely and utterly all log books (and i assume certifications and experience) is insulting to say the least! Seems kinda arrogant too... The entire diving certification universe is inadequate for your operation, and the only way to getting an advanced dive is to prove yourself on a paid dive on a shallow reef... Aldora...