Frog kick

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Scubaguy62

Son of Yemaya
Scuba Instructor
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I've been trying to perfect my frog kick by trying several techniques, but can't seem to get the same thrust as I can with a flutter kick. Some of my friends use the frog kick exclusively and get the same thrust, on the same fins (mares quattro), as I do on my flutter kick. Would appreciate any suggestions and view points.

Semper Safe,

Rick
 
Although never taught it by an instructor, i kind of mashed together a frog kick from doing breaststroke in the pool for many years and seeing the video clips on 5thD and a few other places that are GUE or DIR etc. I have found that i can get a similiar if not sometimes more efficient thrust from frog kicking for the same or less energy than a flutter kick. I am still trying to perfect my technique and during my AOW class i hope to go through kicking techniques (our original OW instructor just told us to do flutter and nothing more) with him a little.

With regard to power/thrust from the kick, i find that you need to have the fins pushing the water behind you, not just together - that is thrust after all and pushing just together will just squeeze/displace (i know water doesnt compress) water a little and not give great thrust. My technique is to bring the heels together quicker than the toes and follow through with the toes/fin tips coming together after and that continues the thrusting up until the last part of the kick before the return. I also find that to get the maximum out of the stroke, glide with it before trying to return to the start (point your toes/fin tips and keep them together). Turn your fins on their side as you recover them to get the least possible drag as you bring them back up.

Dont know how everyone else does it, but i find i get as good if not better thrust from that kick then flutter (unless i am busting a lung) with a lot less energy.
 
The frog kick will never be as fast as a flutter kick - but that's not what it's for. The frog kick has a couple of advantages over the flutter kick, however, that make it an excellent stroke: it's far more efficient than the flutter, so you won't get as tired as quickly and it directs very little of the energy downward, so it doesn't stir up the bottom so much.

You should learn how to do both comfortably.
 
Yep.

I can out-flutter my frog easly, but if I'm near a silty bottom, or don't NEED to go fast, why go fast? Your required power goes up at the SQUARE of your speed.

My lowest RMV dives have been shooting either still pictures or video - most of which is hanging around as motionless as possible trying to get the perfect shot. The faster I swim, the more gas I burn for the distance covered.
 
Any underwater hockey player will attest that the fastest underwater kick is not the flutter, but by far and away the dolphin kick.

That being said, I do neither whilst on Scuba. Frog kicking is where it's at.
 
It is true that you can get more propulsion from the flutter kick, but efficiency wise, do you get as much thrust for the same energy/heartbeat/air consumption with the flutter kick as you do the frog?? Subjectively i would say its easier to go the same speed, reasonably slow, with the frog as flutter and with less exertion. Again the dolphin is the quickest, but again my heart races a little more with that than others, although i do go further/faster with it.

But beyond this talk on efficiency/speed etc, has anyone got tips on getting the most out of the frog, so that you can go faster, or have longer glides to reduce expended energy??
 
I can scooter faster than any of you can flutter... but so what. :D

TIP #1 - Don't rock up and down (porpoise) as you frog... that wastes energy and creates drag.

TIP #2 - Do glide with legs extended behind you between frog kicks.
 
I have also been in many boats that push 100mph, which would blow your scooter out of the water, but you dont get to see much marine life that way!! :wink: However, when it rains, those little droplets feel like daggers against bare skin.

I only porpoise when breaststroking, otherwise i cant breathe!!

Is there a particular time you "flick" to propel better or just a long steady stroke? Also is there a particular point in the return stroke you have found that works best when you rotate your ankles (from the straight of the glide to right angles at the top of the stroke) to get the narrow edge as you spread your legs slightly to return? How far out do you spread your legs for the kick? To about a 90 deg angle between legs, or not as far as that? I found a larger angle (obviously not huge/splits) helpful for breaststroke swimming, but not sure about scuba kicking.

As said earlier, i have seen the videos (i find the modified a laugh as it hardly appears that you move anywhere for so much fin movement), tried a few things out and feel my kick is ok, but i would always love to improve it!
 
Difficult to explain the best kick. . . you need to dive with people who are good at it and watch and emulate them. . . and ask them to critique your form.

As much fun as it is to talk (and post) about diving, it's just always better to go out and DO IT!! Strange how much your skills improve when you use them.

theskull
 
Is there a particular time you "flick" to propel better or just a long steady stroke?
At the end of the stroke, just as the heels come together.

Also is there a particular point in the return stroke you have found that works best when you rotate your ankles (from the straight of the glide to right angles at the top of the stroke) to get the narrow edge as you spread your legs slightly to return?
At the start of the stroke, just before you bring your heels apart. This can be hard on your shin muscles for awhile.

How far out do you spread your legs for the kick? To about a 90 deg angle between legs, or not as far as that? I found a larger angle (obviously not huge/splits) helpful for breaststroke swimming, but not sure about scuba kicking.
Knees no more than 90, less if you aren't trying for speed. Ankles no wider than shoulder width.The only big difference I've found between surface swimming a frog kick and using it in scuba is that the glide phase is much longer in scuba and your calves will get tired faster due to fin resistance.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...7921649/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/002-4229707-8520012
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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