Having a 'mentoring' session?

[TN-Steve]

Hey gang,

As I work on becoming a 'diver' and not a 'tourist under water' I've hit a bit of a quandary. To improve I need to dive. Not a big problem, there is a very good quarry not far at all from my house that's a scuba dive park. The problem is that I'm doing about the same thing everytime I go out there. Swim around, see the sights, work on my buoyancy, don't stir up the bottom. I'm getting where I can honestly say that I don't suck too much at those.

The problem is that most of my dive partners say 'you look great', and 'doing super job'. While I appreciate that, I need to get some constructive critique of where I'm at now (AOW, 25 or so dives, so I have a realistic expectation that there are things I'm doing that could greatly be improved). I've done Peak Performance Buoyancy and that was the class where the lights started to come on and a started to "Feel" what I was doing, that the physics of diving started to gel in my mind.

I'm thinking of contacting a local instructor (who I did my AOW with) and seeing if I could do a 'mentor / critique / coach' type session with him. Is this something that is common? Of course I'm not expecting him to do this out of the goodness of his heart.

Any advice or guidance you can give me will be well appreciated.

Steve

 

[tbone1004]

it depends. It depends on how good of an instructor he is. Unfortunately the vast majority of instructors are no better than the students they teach, so you will likely not get a whole lot out of him that you haven't already. Your best course of action is to post on here what your ultimate diving goals are. If that is cave diving, or deep wreck diving and your instructor is not a tech diver, you should probably run away as fast as possible, again, no offense to him but it is a fact of the industry. If that is your goal, then you should have little problem finding a cave or tech diver in your area and most of us are quite happy to mentor new divers who want to be as good as possible.

If that isn't feasible, you can try to convince a dive buddy to take video of you diving, and compare it to videos of good divers on the web, and keep practicing to start looking like that. The absolutely best way to do this is if you have a friend with an inground pool you can use that has a "deep" section as well as a shallow section. If you can hover and do flat turns and what not in 3' and 6' of water, you are probably better off than 95% of divers, and at least 80% of instructors. Getting video and self critiquing is the best way to improve, having divers that know what they're doing work with you on that critique is helpful, but nothing substitutes you being able to see yourself dive and critique yourself.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba 2]

I am in agreement with what tbone has to say. I will add that you may want to consider seeking out divers who are at the level you hope to be one day and ask if they would be willing to mentor you or at least let you tag along with them whenever they do benign "skills" dives in your local quarry. While the possibility of them telling you to go take a walk do exist, you will most likely find that many are willing to jump in and help you reach your goals. After all, we were all new to diving at some point.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I don't know about your area but this is something I do all the time. Whether you call them coaching sessions, mentoring sessions, or workshops they are an extremely valuable way to tailor a class to the students needs and wants. I still have them fill out a waiver and medical release but there is no cert card and no rigid class structure. You tell me what you want to work on and that's what we do.

 

[tbone1004]

Jim, you're one of the small percentage of instructors that don't suck, so that's part of the benefit there. The harsh and bitter reality of this sport is that the vast majority of instructors are barely qualified to dive, heaven forbid teach divers to become "real divers", and most people who are dedicated to becoming good are much better off finding good divers and diving with them, monkey see monkey do. Monkey see idiot instructor who barely knows how to survive a dive, monkey do
Monkey see quality dive buddy that is willing to mentor them and help them become a better diver, monkey do much better

Great point was diving in Raleigh. The one halfway decent instructor in Raleigh who was actively teaching not at NC State has died of a sudden heart attack. There were a few indy instructors who were not actively teaching who are good, but you wouldn't find them through a shop. Conversely, there are a boatload of good cave and wreck divers in the area who are more than happy to go to the quarries and dive with new divers and help them get better because most of those divers are quite good people and enjoy mentoring. You then develop the long term relationship with those guys, dive with them regularly, and become a much better diver than doing a paid session with a half-ass instructor once in a blue moon. If you have access to a good instructor, then you should take advantage of that, hence why I asked what his ultimate dive goals were/are and what the qualifications of his instructor are.

The fact that he's teaching "Peak Performance Buoyancy" is enough for me to discount him because that class is as idiotic as they come *often paired with Equipment Specialist, blegh*. You shouldn't be given a C-card for open water if you can't pass either of those courses. Those two courses are ways for shops and instructors to suck more money out of divers for skills that should have been taught in their basic class, no exceptions.

Not discounting what you do, because often times those coaching sessions are actually better than formal classes for some divers, but there is really nothing like finding dive buddies that do what you ultimately want to do and growing with them as a diver. That long term relationship and learning period isn't something an instructor can do.

 

[TN-Steve]

Thanks for the feedback. let me see if I can hit a few of the points raised....

What kind of diver do I want to be? I'm not sure yet. I want to be a capable, secure and confident recreational diver. I don't see caves or super deep tech diving as part of my plans at this time. I don't want to be the clueless idiot can't handle a small thing going wrong, or even know WHY the right thing to do IS the right thing.

I do love photography, and have gotten a good deal through SB on a nice Olympus MFT camera and housing. I've already decided that I'm not taking the camera in until I get to 50 dives, I know how 'target fixated' I get on land going for a shot, and don't need that level of tasking underwater right now. I am, however, on each of my dives 'pretending' to take pictures, getting stable, holding a position, ankle finning in, back and around without disturbing the bottom.

The instructor I took my AOW isn't the one that I did PPB with. The one I did AOW with seems to have his stuff together pretty well, but again, I've got a limited set of tools to measure with. I know that he's an effective trainer, that's what I do for a living (computers), so I recognize good skills in that regard.

I've joined the local dive club, hoping as I meet more divers, dive with various folks I'll find the ones that make me say "I want to be like that person, or do "X" as well as this person".

I agree with the video. I know from watching my golf swing on video that often what we "think" we are doing and what our body is really doing are 2 totally different things. That is something I'm going to ask some of my dive buddies (since go-pros are everywhere)

Hope this is helpful,

Steve

 

[Dive Right In Scuba 2]

Just a thought, you don't need a buddy to get video of yourself diving. Zip tie a GoPro to a soft weight, set it at the bottom of a swimming pool and be the star of your own movie!

 

[TSandM]

I object to the idea that someone who teaches Peak Performance Buoyancy has branded themselves as worthless. Yes, the class taught to minimums can be worth very little. My husband teaches it, though, with a lot of the ideas we've garnered from other instruction, and by the time students have finished the class, they are properly weighted, their weights are balanced to allow them to trim out, and they've had a ton of practice in pinpoint buoyancy control, including doing so while task loaded, if they are doing well enough.

To answer the question of the OP -- this is really something that varies from instructor to instructor. Some instructors will only teach recognized classes, and that only if there are enough students to make it worth their while. Other instructors enjoy mentoring or coaching, especially for students they have previously taught. You could also talk to the DMs that worked with your class (if there were any) about whether they are willing to do a little mentoring.

In the diving community of which I am a part, mentoring "younger" divers is a part of the culture. It's not necessary to hire someone just to get a few tips and some feedback -- we all do that for one another on a regular basis.

If you let me know where you are, I might be able to steer you toward that kind of community.

 

[boulderjohn]

The harsh and bitter reality of this sport is that the vast majority of instructors are barely qualified to dive, heaven forbid teach divers to become "real divers", and most people who are dedicated to becoming good are much better off finding good divers and diving with them, monkey see monkey do. Monkey see idiot instructor who barely knows how to survive a dive, monkey do
Monkey see quality dive buddy that is willing to mentor them and help them become a better diver, monkey do much better

What you see here is a typical post by a typical ScubaBoard particpant in discussion like this. Here is a summary of this typical position.

1. Instructors really suck at diving. they are "barely qualified to dive." Why would anyone even think of learning anything from one of them?

2. Miraculously, every one of the students who learn from these instructors are better than the instructors who taught them. Those are the people you should seek out to learn from. The ones who have been taught by the really crappy instructors are superb divers who can really show you how to dive.They make great Mentors.

3. Eventually some of these great Mentors will decide to become instructors. At that point, they will suddenly suck big time. They will barely know how to dive. Stay away from them at all costs!

If that makes sense to you, by all means go for the least qualified person you can find. By God, that has to be the best!

 

[swimmer_spe]

Why not talk to the other divers in your area. There are other divers, right?

Dive with more people.

Dive with people who have been diving for decades, as apposed to years.

Dive with those people that do not own the new and flashy gear.

Go - Dive.