How many of you put most of your weights in the front integrated weight pockets?

[Z Gear]

I wanted to find out if there are more divers like me and my dive buddy, on this forum who were taught and still practice the habit of putting most of their weights in the front of their BC. I have asked around to some instructors and dive masters in my area and most agree that this is the best way to use a quick weight ditch system.

I posted earlier on an incident that occurred last weekend :What would you do or has this happened to you with your weights!

I was diving this morning at La Jolla Shores CA and my dive buddy"s integrated weight (velcro secured) fell out. Thank God we were heading back towards shore and this happened at 20 feet. All I know is, I took a look at my gauge for a second and when I turned to look for my buddy she was gone. She said when her weight fell out she immediately shot up like a rocket!!! She at least remembered to breathe and not hold her breath and were pretty shallow. It brought something to my attention that this could have happened at our 75 foot depth that we were earlier. That is why I wanted to ask for any thoughts or experiences this topic, on what to do if this should occur especially below 30 feet.

I received a lot of good advice. The main message from everyone was the importance of proper weight distribution. They did make a lot of sense: on how this would lessen the affect when losing an integrated weight. By having more weights distributed in different areas, when one falls off it won't affect you as much and will not cause you to ascend so quickly. Distributing the weights in different areas allows you to be better balanced as well.

My dilemma is: I want to do something to help divers out their who are convinced in loading most their weights in the front pocket ( of BC) still think it's a good practice. Tell me why you still think this is still good, especially after reading this post.

If you are still not convinced on weight distribution, tell me if you think someone should make a quick release leash, tether or something that could help retrieve the weight in the event of an inadvertent release of the weights. If you think that this is a good idea let me know. I don't care who makes this, I just think those choosing to use their weights the way I was ( and my dive buddy), are risking an accident. Sometimes it's hard to change peoples mind on how they do things especially when they are experienced and have been doing things in a certain way without incident for a while, but it just takes one time to get you to realize how dangerous it can be. It could happen to yourself or someone you know lets try and address this all the way. That is why I thought, if I can't convince them to distribute their weights perhaps I can help them by providing some type of safety measure to their integrated weight system.

Tell me what you think.

 

[Roman_66]

I use front pockets few years and my friends also.
I never heard that something was fell out from those pockets. So may be just use different manufactory ?
I also have two small (3-4 lb) trim pockets on tank itself.

 

[00wabbit]

You need to distribute the weight where it needs to be. Usually the center of mass needs to be near the center of lift. For some people it may mean putting trim weights high up on a cam band or in trim pockets. For others it may mean carrying the weights lower than the pockets in a harness or a weight belt. For me it mean some weight in the pockets and some in the trim pockets on the shoulders when diving wet and then all my weight in a weight harness below the bc when diving dry.


I think just blindly stuffing them into the front pockets will not achieve ideal trim for all people. It may work for some bit not others.


Additionally as you saw if you happen to loose a pocket and it has a lot of weight in it you can have a bad time.

You need to put the weight where it needs to be and have enough in the weight pockets to ditch if necessary.


Further to your question of a leash, etc. I'm not sure about this because one may want to drop their weights but in a rescue situation not realize that the weights are still attached and still pulling the diver down. There are many different weight systems. The scubapro one uses large buckles that are either in or out. There is really no way to get it wrong. Also the dui weight and trim harness has a ripcord like connection that requires a very long pull to release the weight pocket. It holds secure but is very unlikely to accidentally get pulled.

 

[Z Gear]

In the case of my dive buddy, she believes she inadvertently unlocked the velcro while reaching to the pocket to put her gloves away.

She also put 6 lbs in her trim on the back of BC, as well. I wanted to stress the fact that all that weight in the front pocket could be potentially dangerous even if you have not heard of this ever happening before. I proposed the leash/ tether of some type to counter an accidental ditch of a main weight. There is nothing to do in an event such as what happened, don't you think there is some type of need for a "safety tether "for divers like yourself and others who wish to still use most of their weights in the front pockets? The potential of this happening is still there, your velcro or plastic buckle could either be worn or crack, you could just lean forward and and it just comes off, and this would not be good! Something to think about!

---------- Post added August 26th, 2014 at 10:25 PM ----------

You need to distribute the weight where it needs to be. Usually the center of mass needs to be near the center of lift. For some people it may mean putting trim weights high up on a cam band or in trim pockets. For others it may mean carrying the weights lower than the pockets in a harness or a weight belt. For me it mean some weight in the pockets and some in the trim pockets on the shoulders when diving wet and then all my weight in a weight harness below the bc when diving dry.


I think just blindly stuffing them into the front pockets will not achieve ideal trim for all people. It may work for some bit not others.


Additionally as you saw if you happen to loose a pocket and it has a lot of weight in it you can have a bad time.

You need to put the weight where it needs to be and have enough in the weight pockets to ditch if necessary.


Further to your question of a leash, etc. I'm not sure about this because one may want to drop their weights but in a rescue situation not realize that the weights are still attached and still pulling the diver down. There are many different weight systems. The scubapro one uses large buckles that are either in or out. There is really no way to get it wrong. Also the dui weight and trim harness has a ripcord like connection that requires a very long pull to release the weight pocket. It holds secure but is very unlikely to accidentally get pulled.

As I said earlier I do agree with weight distribution, I am convinced this is the proper way to deal with this issue. It is the other divers who I can not convince and will still keep stuffing the weights in the front Of their BC's that I am trying to do something about. If they are going to continue to use their weights in that fashion, because they are taught this way( and there are alot who practice this) and consider it normal. Why not do something to help the masses instead of just watch and wait until something bad happens to them. I am simply urging any manufacturer besides myself to come up with a safety tether that can help divers from potentially harming themsevelves in the event of an accidental weight ditch. I know you have rationalized that a safety tether of some kind can not be done, for the reasons you stated above, but you don't know how this leash or tether that I have envisioned is going to work . I have taken many things into account on what it would take to make this a "safe measure" for divers to use. I urge other manufacturers to do the same and also look into this area, and come up with something , as well.

 

[Storker]

I want to do something to help divers out their who are convinced in loading most their weights in the front pocket ( of BC) still think it's a good practice. Tell me why you still think this is still good, especially after reading this post.

Some BCDs have a simple velcro fastening system for the weight pockets. I don't like them, as the velcro gets worn. Also, it's very easy to stuff the weights just halfway into the pockets on the BCD, increasing the risk for them falling out. So, make sure your weights are stuffed all the way to the bottom in the BCD.

My previous BCD - the jacket type I switched for a BP/W - had the weights secured by quick-release clips, and the straps were velcro'ed to the BCD. They never showed any inclination to fall out, but they were still quite easy to release in case I'd be needing to ditch them. I did that drill a couple of times to make sure I could.

On my current BP/W, I have my ditchable weight distributed: Half is in weight pockets on my harness, and half on a belt underneath my crotch strap. I prefer to have quite a bit of ditchable weight, both because I'm a bit paranoid about not being able to ditch weight in an emergency, and because I often dive from a small boat. Handing some 10kg of lead to the boat tender before climbing aboard makes it a lot easier to climb a small, steep ladder with the rig still donned.

tell me if you think someone should make a quick release leash, tether or something that could help retrieve the weight in the event of an inadvertent release of the weights.

Sorry to be blunt, but IMO that's probably the worst idea I've heard in a while.

The whole point with ditchable weights is that you should be able to dump them quite easily if you find yourself struggling to keep afloat on the surface. If your weights are tethered to you, you've just made the situation worse.

 

[jboneng]

I have my weights in my QR front pockets, and in the back weight-pockets. have never lost my weights during a dive, I always double check that those pockets are secure.
I have dived with buddies that have lost their weight during a dive, on multiple occasions, and non have rocketed to the surface, because they know what to do in such an event, they regain control over their buoyancy while I pick up the weights and put them back into my buddy's pockets, and we continue the dive, no problems.

As Storker said, tether the weights to your BCD/body would be a really bad idea indeed.

 

[Doc]

The main message from everyone was the importance of proper weight distribution. They did make a lot of sense: on how this would lessen the affect when losing an integrated weight. By having more weights distributed in different areas, when one falls off it won't affect you as much and will not cause you to ascend so quickly.

You're going to have to think about that and explain that idea to yourself (and us) before you can go beyond and search for solutions.

tether the weights to your BCD/body would be a really bad idea indeed.

In fact, all weights are "tethered". It is done in a manner that allows trade-offs between retention and ditch-ability.

​That trade-off is where I am going here:

The concept of ditching weights is largely the lore of training manuals and liability attorneys, with a liberal doses of creative equipment manufacturers tossing out products. This only became "important" with the advent of weight integrated BCs. In 50 years of diving I have never seen a legitimate need to ditch weights under a stress situation.

I'm pretty sure that accomplishing the ditching would have limited success for most individuals or those assisting. First and best resource is to inflate BC. I have seen a lot of very stressed individuals (diving and otherwise), and besides fine motor skills going out the window, the thought process is just plain short circuited. Pure spastic reflex.

As to preventing "falling out" or unintentional loss?

Many dive with weights that are rather permanent in nature. Tank keel weights (mounted by strap to back of tank) and the quest for the holy grail imagined by stainless steel backplates. Did I mention the weight of a Steel Tank? How about the very common practice securing a small weight to the tank nipple? (good lord, I've done it with 550 paracord)

Extra weight pockets? What were you going to do to ditch those weights in the back, tucked deep on either side of the upper tank? can you get at them as a diver? As a rescuer, will you even see them or be able to get at them? These do not usually fail, they are dirt simple pockets with Delrin snap fasteners, no Velcro friction release points.

The BC manufacturers have this pocket system pretty well worked out as far as mechanical failure avoidance. Moving weights around is a nice idea for trim buoyancy adjustments, distributing the load, but it all changes the minute a diver begins the hour-long process of purging the air out of the BC as the dive evolves.

Examine the weight pocket retention system for wear. Understand how it operates. Most never do either of those things. The greatest failure point for highly engineered weight systems is the human- their failure to examine the most common system, the mating of Velcro surfaces that constitute the friction release system. Old ratty Velcro might be an issue, but more likely it is operator error in not carefully matching up and pressing the mating surfaces.

Do not over think things, and this is a pretty good example.

 

[wspalding]

I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but when I see pictures or video of myself I think I am pretty well trimmed out in the water. I keep half of my weight in the front BC pockets, and half in the rear trim pockets. I have on one occasion lost a front weight pocket during a dive (I now double/triple check that they are locked in), and did not rocket to the surface. At the end of the dive I had to make sure to really empty my lungs during each exhale to maintain 15 feet, but it was manageable. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want my weights tethered to me. If I am in a situation where someone feels a need to dump my weights, or I feel I need to dump my weights, I don't want an additional thing that could go wrong and the weight ditch is unsuccessful (although I think that ditching weights should not be necessary to get me to the surface positively buoyant barring some kind of failure with my BC).

 

[Hawkwood]

The pockets in my Aeris Atmos XT are not in the front, but are directly over the hips.

They have an interesting design - the pockets slide in from the top so that when horizontal, they are parallel to the body, not pointing "down". I can't imagine how they can "fall" out.

 

[shoredivr]

The concept of ditching weights is largely the lore of training manuals and liability attorneys, with a liberal doses of creative equipment manufacturers tossing out products. This only became "important" with the advent of weight integrated BCs. In 50 years of diving I have never seen a legitimate need to ditch weights under a stress situation.

Do you mean ditch at *depth* not being a solution? Because DAN accident reports are full of "failure to ditch weights at the *surface*" being an issue in fatalities.

For example, in cold water with heavy exposure protection a diver could have 30 lbs of weights even if properly weighted. Ditching at the surface some or all (depending how weights are configured) in a medical emergency or other stress is what is recommended.