What has Happened to PADI

[wilsonfallows]

I first started diving around 1970, then twin hose regulators were being superseded by single hose regulators, but as yet an ‘octopus’ hadn’t been thought of. No such thing as a BCD, you just had to get your weighting right from the outset – no compensating with a little more/less air to stay neutrally buoyant.
I took my first PADI course around 1999, the reason being, despite my ‘experience’, without a ‘certification’ it was getting impossible to get a dive whilst on holiday.
In 2007 following a horrendous divorce I decide to kick my own butt, and take the instructors course at the ripe old age of 62. Having passed I never did go on to teach but continued to and still do dive. I paid my annual ‘membership’ to PADI for a few years but as I was never going to teach as a profession, I was paying just to maintain ‘teaching status’.
I am living in Thailand and recently my partner took the PADI open water course. The manual was available in Thai, but not the DVD, which although my partner speaks reasonable English put her at a disadvantage.
I tried to help with the theory, but no matter what sign language you use, its rather difficult to get across the principal of buoyancy in that ‘an object that displaces less than its own weight of water will float’
The instructor was English, late 40’s to early 50’s, He had passed his instructor exam five years ago. I sat by the side of the pool for the confined water dives, and was most unhappy with the way they were conducted, only a handful of skills were what I would say completed and to standard.
I actually accompanied my partner on the first of the open water dives. My partner appeared to be ‘uncomfortable’ right from the outset, and after about 15 minutes the ‘instructor’ handed her over to me and just went off to the other ‘student’. On surfacing my partner said she had the feeling that she wasn’t getting enough air. After I had calmed her down explaining that being a ‘demand valve’ a small amount of effort was required as opposed to breathing out in the open. We descended again and knelt on the bottom, after a few minutes of just relaxing and breathing I took her for a short ‘swim’, following which the ‘instructor’ came and took her back from me.
I refrained from going in for the next three open water dives, as otherwise I felt I’d end up doing the instructors job for him.
Being unhappy to say the least I attempted to log on to the PADI Pro Site. I found the log in process had changed in that previously one logged in with name and PADI number. Now it required a user name and password. When I tried to register it told me my birth date was ‘not acceptable’ and so I couldn’t process my application further. When on subsequent attempts were made I was given a ‘password’ to get me into the site, but on attempting to do so I was locked out as I was ‘Not Renewed’,
Rumours have always been that PADI is only interested in money, and this would prove it to me having apparently been excommunicated from the organisation because I have not paid the fee that keeps me in ‘Teaching Status’.
Having paid my way all the way up to instructor, I still hold the qualification, and should have access to the information contained in the PADI Pro site.
Even though I am not in ‘Teaching Status’, I still get asked about courses and should be able to pass on the most up to date information on courses and requirements even though not teaching.
PADI has also it appears become one of those ‘faceless organisations’ that are almost impossible to contact. The Web site takes one round and round in circles when trying to find a contact email address, always ending up at the ‘contact form’ page. Well I completed this contact form, and gave all the information it requested, and in addition my PADI member number which it didn’t ask for, and expressed my concern over not being able to use the Pro site and my concerns regarding the open water course my partner took. To date some two weeks on have not received a response.
But what I do get at regular intervals are mail shots from PADI ‘inviting’ me to renew, and they will send me a short video to bring me back up to ‘teaching status’.
Don’t tell me its not about the money

 

[flots am]

Rumours have always been that PADI is only interested in money, and this would prove it to me having apparently been excommunicated from the organisation because I have not paid the fee that keeps me in ‘Teaching Status’.
Having paid my way all the way up to instructor, I still hold the qualification, and should have access to the information contained in the PADI Pro site.

You're not feeding the machine, so they don't care about you.

flots.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

It's a business, of course it's about the money.

 

[rockystock1]

Is there any quality controll at the millions of padi schools??


Rocky

 

[Doc]

#1) If you're not current with PADI Annual fees, no, you're no longer hooked up to access the Pro portions of the website, nor are you an "instructor", no matter what the plastic card might proclaim. You don't need to access your revoked website content in order to file a complaint. As you might know, complaints about Standards Violations are not answered very quickly. If you combined this complaint with your other website access problems, that may have caused a kerfuffle, stalling the process. Standards Violation complaints require very specific references to skills omission, etc. if it was written without specific chargeable details, this will cause further delay, or may be so obfuscated by the nature of the prose or anecdotal writing style (As I read your post, only by process of deduction could be ascertained that you stopped paying your annual fee). If they did perceive that you had seen a critical Standards Violation, yes, they should follow up with you at some point.

#2) As an Instructor (of many differing endeavors, for both hobbies and professional), the very last thing I want or need is to having an SO anywhere near the training environment. Even if her SO was also an instructor of the same Agency.

I learned, long before my only rather painless divorce, never ever try to teach your SO any technical skill. In my second, and ongoing happy marriage, I hired someone good to teach her OW, to shoot a handgun, to drive my gift to her- a restored MG Midget with non-synchro first gear. Double clutching is not a good thing to get into an in depth discussion with someone who could easily alter the tone of your formerly baritone voice after an acrimonious lesson whilst you were expecting a non-Lorena Bobbit kind of experience.

I wish to now apologize for my signature lengthy sentence structure, pleading that, at least, I do hit the "return" button every so often to create paragraphs.

You do not describe how, after she was assumably certified, that you took the opportunity to then really work with her on the skills and points you have learned from your now 47 years of diving experience? Tell us that part of the story, we all hope for and like happy endings.

#3) We certainly can't understand the full effect of whatever language difficulty you might have communicating technical matters with your SO, but as an Instructor, you should have been easily able to explain or demonstrate principles of buoyancy. The PADI written manual was supplied in her native language? How many Agencies do that? If her English language skills are limited, maybe you could locate the "rare" local native who might speak Thai, what with being in Thailand and all. Teaching females a technical pursuit is a distinctly different methodology due to learning styles. I was a PSIA ski instructor and continue to teach police officers- always focused on females because I had excellent instruction myself in how to adjust my teaching styles.

4) You attained OWSI status but never went on to teach. I'm guessing you're a very competent diver, but by your own definition, you don't have any teaching expertise. BTW- I, like you, got around to getting a CCard in 1970. We had class provided single hose regs and horse collar BCs with auto inflator hose. Not sure why you would have ever even seen a double hose or trained with no BC provided (pre BCD nomenclature), and we had octos in 1972.


#4) I am usually first in line to do some PADIwhacking... When needed.

Nice 3rd post, BTW, the first one in 7 years.

Axe all sharp? Mission accomplished?

 

[scoobydrew]

Is there any quality controll at the millions of padi schools??

There is a quality control program in place called QA (Quality Assurance). Students are selected at random after a course has been completed and emailed a questionnaire from PADI and if it looks like from the responses that the instructor has done something wrong then an investigation will start the results of which could end up in re-training for the instructor or even expulsion from PADI. Alternatively if someone complains to PADI about an instructor then they will also investigate.

wilsonfallows - It sounds like you have a few main concerns
1) You don't like your wife's instructor
2) You don't like PADIs business model
3) You are annoyed about not being able to use the pro site

Writing a PADI bashing post is easy and you will find no lack of supporters especially when complaining about business ethics and standards, I will attempt to play devils advocate.

1) You don't like your wifes instructor
This is a common issue with training. My opinion (which may be influenced by the fact I am an instructor) is that a great deal of the value of the course is based on the instructor, there are very good and very bad out there and a world of possibilities in between. What research did you do when choosing an instructor? What was your selection criteria? Does he speak Thai? PADI makes a vehicle, it is up to the instructor to drive that vehicle. Maybe other agencies make vehicles that are more effective but a good driver can easily compensate for this. Now there is of course an argument that if he is a PADI pro then his ability should not be brought in to question but the reality is that some people manage to demonstrate the skills well enough to pass the instructor exam but then teaching in the real world is not something that they are good at. From your post I can't tell how this ended, can/did you talk to the guy, the business owner/manager, has your wife finished the course yet. I would start with talking to the guy but without coming at it from a confrontational angle because if he feels like you as an ex instructor are calling his abilities to question then your actions could well be counter productive. Something like "I notice that practices have changed nowadays, when I did my IDC we used to xxxxx differently, why did they change that bit?"

2) You don't like PADIs business model
PADI continues to evolve as a successful business must. They have a contact strategy in place which is through the website. If you click on their contacts page then there is a service there where you can email someone, I would start with that. Failing that surely there are contact details on the mailshots they send you asking you to renew? The fact that PADI are good at making money is something that always bothers people and I still don't know why. Would you avoid Tescos because they are successful? PADI sells a product and it does it well. I don't agree with everything they do but I am happy to stay with PADI as they are globally the most successful certifying organisation and therefore the one that opens the most doors to me as an instructor, I have taught their courses full time now for almost 7 years and have no thoughts about changing. They deal with the mass and it works for most but of course is not perfect. They will continue to make money, that will always be their business driver but the customer still has choice in what they buy and should they research the topic before buying then they should establish a good enough route to start with.

3) You are annoyed about not being able to use the pro site
To be blunt the pro site is for pros which you are not. You once were but are not now. If you have declared to PADI that you are no longer going to teach their courses (by stopping paying dues) then why should you still be able to receive resources required for teaching PADI courses? Courses change and ways of teaching them change, if you are not keeping yourself up to date with these changes then some of the material on the website will be out of context and not make sense to you. Also there are benefits that we have as PADI pros that we receive in return for our (admittedly high) yearly fees like the jobs board, if you no longer pay for the service then why should you still receive the service?

 

[Colliam7]

Your post raises two separate issues: a) your concerns about the quality of instruction you partner apparently received, and b) your concerns about your status with PADI, and. I can readily appreciate - from your description - your frustration with the apparent quality of the instruction. Of course, there are always 2 sides to every story, and we only have yours. But, taking the experience as given, it appears that the instructor did not provide the kind of attention, supervision, and instruction that a reasonable person should expect, having paid money for a course. In reality, that is probably not as much a PADI issue as it an issue with the particular shop / resort / instructor involved. Did you / your partner complain to the shop / resort that employed the Instructor? I would have - and not as an Instructor - just as a customer.

The manual was available in Thai, but not the DVD, which although my partner speaks reasonable English put her at a disadvantage.

Frankly, it is fairly impressive that the OW manual itself was available in Thai. I wonder how many other certification agencies also do that. PADI makes many of their teaching materials available, in 25 languages. And, while it would be helpful to have the DVD in Thai, I am not surprised that the video is not. The manual is, however.

Where I disagree with your views is in regard to your PADI status, and what you think you should get. One statement in particular caught my attention:

Don’t tell me its not about the money

OK, I won't tell you that. It appears that it most definitely is, for you, about the money.

I paid my annual ‘membership’ to PADI for a few years but as I was never going to teach as a profession, I was paying just to maintain ‘teaching status’.

So, it was 'about the money' - you didn't want to pay it. YOU made a choice that you did not wish to remain 'current', by paying your annual fees. That is certainly your privilege, and I can easily understand your decision. But, why should PADI / any other organization continue to carry (afford you the associated benefits) you as a 'professional' member? You are not. I am a licensed health professional. I pay a state license renewal fee every year, even though I am not currently practicing. As soon as I stop paying, I stop being considered a licensed professional, I cannot practice my profession (legally) etc. And, I will no longer have access to the state licensing board's section for license holders. That's just the way it is.

Having paid my way all the way up to instructor, I still hold the qualification, and should have access to the information contained in the PADI Pro site.

Why? Yes, you paid the fees for your Instructor Course, for your IE, and for your initial Instructor application. Every PADI professional also signs a Membership Commitment at the outset - you cannot submit your Instructor application without doing so (although quite a few seem to forget that they did). One of the provisions in that document is: 'Represent yourself as a PADI Instructor only when you are in Teaching Status.' So, from the beginning, PADI makes it clear that you cannot represent yourself as an Instructor if you are not in 'Teaching Status'. Every PADI Instructor starts out with an an Instructor Manual (even in the 'old days'). But, even the older IMs define the terms and conditions of Membership. For example, from the Instructor Manual: 'Inactive Status - A member in Inactive Status does not receive benefits of membership and is not authorized to perform the duties of a certified assistant, nor conduct courses as outlined.' You are Inactive. You do not receive the benefits of membership (including access to the Pro site). I paid A LOT more to become a licensed health professional than I did to become a PADI Instructor. And, I, too, supposedly have the qualification, even if I don't renew. But, i would have no more access to the licensing Board's professional website than I would to the PADI Pro site, if I stopped paying my renewal fee.

Even though I am not in ‘Teaching Status’, I still get asked about courses and should be able to pass on the most up to date information on courses and requirements even though not teaching.

Yes, you may be asked, in which case you can easily say, 'I am sorry, I am not currently a credentialed PADI instructor. You should ask XXX', and direct the person to a shop or a current Instructor. I dive with someone here in the US in that same situation. He decided to stop teaching a number of years ago, and to not continue to renew his professional membership. He is an exceptionally skilled diver. He has a lot of knowledge that he can share with newer divers. He also makes a point of telling people who ask, that he was formerly an instructor, but is no longer credentialed to teach, and directs their questions to someone else, who is.

PADI has also it appears become one of those ‘faceless organisations’ that are almost impossible to contact. The Web site takes one round and round in circles when trying to find a contact email address, always ending up at the ‘contact form’ page. Well I completed this contact form, and gave all the information it requested, and in addition my PADI member number which it didn’t ask for, and expressed my concern over not being able to use the Pro site and my concerns regarding the open water course my partner took. To date some two weeks on have not received a response.

Yes, the PADI pro site login changed - several years ago. And, no, you no longer have access to it - you are Inactive, and not receiving the benefits of membership. And, I will agree with you that the 'public' PADI website is not as intuitive as I might like, and it tends to direct you first to some FAQs, then to an email inquiry form when you look for 'Contact Us' information. But, as a quick test, I simply Googled PADI Asia, came up with a link to the public PADI Asia Pacific (the regional PADI headquarters that covers Thailand) website, and quickly (less than 30 seconds after typing 'PADI Asia' into the Google search box) found both a mailing address (in Australia) AND a telephone number that you could call to reach them (and it would be a Skype call): +61 2 9454 2862 . Like you, I would have been frustrated by sending an email, and not receiving a reply for 2 weeks. If the issue is important enough, pick up the phone (or the computer keyboard) and call them / Skype them. Maybe the email was never delivered. It happens.

But what I do get at regular intervals are mail shots from PADI ‘inviting’ me to renew, and they will send me a short video to bring me back up to ‘teaching status’.

Which you have elected not to pursue. So, who needs to take responsibility for your situation - PADI, or you? I am not picking on you. But, you are complaining about something that is a direct and logical consequence of your actions. You chose not to renew. That was your decision. PADI has (apparently) continued to give you a chance to change your status. Sure, you can say that, for them, it is about the money. But, you have declined to renew. So, it can just as correctly be said, for you it is also about the money.

 

[scubadada]

There are many professional organizations for which you must pay dues or other fees to maintain active status and privileges. PADI professional appears to be one of those. I find nothing unusual about this practice.

On the other hand, I do not understand how when you learned to dive, when you took your first PADI course, your partner's trouble with her class, or your problems with a modern, secure, website has anything to do with your complaint concerning your teaching status. I probably missed the point and you just wanted to complain about PADI.

 

[drbill]

As far as I'm concerned, OW SCUBA certification in general has been dumbed down substantially since the early 1960s (before PADI) when I got certified. Back then the course I took was long and detailed even though we had nowhere near the gear that divers start with today. It took three weeks of regular classroom, pool and ocean coursework to get the basic Los Angeles County OW cert. Today one is required to take OW, AOW, Deep and Rescue to cover the same material that was gone over in my OW course.

In some respects breaking up the coursework into separate OW, AOW and Rescue certs makes sense from a financial standpoint. Today it costs over $1,000 to do all three. Many potential divers might not even try unless they were fairly sure they wanted to continue in the activity. I'm not sure whether this is good or bad since I would prefer to see more rigorous training for new divers than is currently given.

As for the PADI PRO issue, I understand why they would exclude you from that part of their site if you are not a current dues-paying member. As others have said, it is a business and they provide that service to those who pay for it.

 

[TMHeimer]

When I get too old to DM (next week?) I will of course let my membership laps. I will answer a diver's question as a somewhat experienced diver (whose knowledge of courses will probably not be up to date), not as a PADI DM. They can take the info. I give them for what it's worth.