Weighting/Trim Question

[krbailey]

I recently took the PADI Peak Performance Buoyancy class and improved my overall diving skills immensely. However, to achieve a horizontal position in the water, I moved my weight belt high up on my torso (think of old man/nerd pants).



Is there a BCD out there that will hold weights in the upper part of the jacket? FYI - I had 6 lbs in each BCD pocket, 10 lbs on my weight belt & 2 lbs on my tank strap. I was diving in warm salt water with a 3mm full wetsuit. I'm about 6'1" & 230 lbs, average build.

Or is there another solution?

 

[cb5150]

You'll probably hear lots of folks chime in about using a wing and a stainless steel backplate combo. It reduces the inherent positive buoyancy of a traditional BCD and also spreads about 6.5lbs of weight across your back when you use a stainless steel backplate. You'll probably end up using less weight. Keep diving diving diving diving diving and you'll also see that your weight requirement is reduced with practice.

It worked for me and I'm bigger than you.

 

[Chugwhump]

24 pounds with (I am assuming) an Aluminum 80 tank and a 3mm wetsuit seems way too heavy even if you are using a "Poodle Jacket".
For what it's worth.....
While I now use a Dive a Rite Trans PAC, my previous BCD was a Sherwood Avid.
In the Winter, with 67f-70f , doing shore/beach dives, with an Aluminum 100, and a 3mm tank, I needed about 16 pounds of lead at the most (AL 100's are the most buoyant tanks on the planet at low pressure).
One if the things I really liked about the Sherwood Avid was the two pouches on the back of the BCD about mid tank.
There are also two removable weight pockets on the waist if needed.
If you have not figured it out already, this is a weight integrated style BCD.
As CB5150 said, as you dive more, you will need less and less weight.
And in my opinion, weight belts suck out loud as they cause too much exertion and weird center of balance, trim, whatever.
If you are REALLY going to be a regular, hardcore, often time, diver,
a back inflate or wing is a great idea.
The modularity of components will allow you to reconfigure your rig based upon there you are diving and what you are doing.
And a great jacket is also great BCD.

Add/edit:
I currently dive with about 4 pounds of lead, with a LP120/HP149 and a 3mm wetsuit and the Trans PAC.
2 pounds if carrying my 19cf Pony Tank, and that's on the opposing side of said pony for balance.


Chug
1 back pack and 4 BCD's since 1977.

 

[krbailey]

Chugwhump - I was using an AL 100. More diving/less body mass will certainly help. I'm currently working on both. I'm looking to purchase my first BCD and will check out the Sherwood Avid.

 

[tbone1004]

I'm going to go with Chug on this one, your PADI peak performance class didn't do you any favors, that is WAY too much weight, entirely unacceptable for a class like that to weight you that heavy.

In similar configuration in warm salt water without an exposure suit I wear about 6lbs of lead, that's for me, a transpac/wing so no inherent weight there, and an al80. With a 5mm full wetsuit I might add maybe 10lbs to that for salt water, about 6lbs for fresh water. I'm 6'4" 280, built pretty solid, but certainly not the skinniest guy out there. In a 3mm wetsuit for your size, you shouldn't have needed more than about 16lbs of lead total, certainly a far cry from 24. You need to do a proper weight check, and there are two ways to do it.
Weight your gear, should be about 6lbs for a stab jacket and an al80 in salt water
Weight yourself, should be less than 4lbs
Weight your wetsuit, should be somewhere between 6-10lbs for a 3mm depending on brand and what not, should be about 6-7lbs in fresh water.
You'll add a few lbs for salt water, so you should come up between 16-20 real world worst case

Alternatively with a full tank you can weight yourself in your wetsuit and add 4lbs for the tank. Either way have to come out below 20lbs, and should be somewhere around 16.

If you were putting your weights that high on your body, your trim was wrong and it pushed your CoG too far down, this is not surprising in a PADI class when you are flutter kicking, but with that relatively small amount of weight on your belt which is about where your CoG should be, your trim shouldn't be a problem. A BP/W will solve a lot of your problems, and if that isn't enough weight harnesses exist but frankly you should be embarrassed if you have to use one in anything but a 7mm farmer john or a drysuit. Not to shame people, but if you are needing one in anything outside of those two types of exposure protection you either need to go on a diet because you are not in good enough shape to dive safely, or your are so far overweighted you are a danger to yourself and the environment that you are liable to come crashing down onto.

Edit: just saw that you were using a AL100, using that amount of lead is entirely unacceptable and your instructor needs to go back to the books on how to weight students, especially for a peak performance buoyancy class, obviously this is outside looking in, but I can honestly say I have never seen someone need that much weight for a 3mm with that tank, I've seen 2 people need that much weight with AL80's, but they needed over 10lbs to sink themselves....



many years ago from the last time I dove with a single tank on my back, but 5mm steamer, HP120, so 1.3lbs negative instead of 0.5lbs negative on your AL100, but didn't wear a weight belt, DiveRite Nomad was the BC so there was no negative buoyancy there. This was in fresh water, so would have required 4 to 6lbs if I was in the ocean, but I was properly weighted. Granted I do sink by a few lbs so that helps, but most people are less than 4lbs positive inherently so you don't need that much.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

As others have said, you need to start over. I'm about your dimensions and I need 9 lbs of weight with a 3mm and an AL 80. I used to own some AL 92s, which yes are very buoyant when empty, but I only added a pound or two max to make up the difference. Worst case, I've seen people need 14-16lbs max in that configuration. (I didn't hear the OP say HP100. I heard AL.)

If it were me, I would put 16lbs on a weight belt and then slide the remaining 10lbs loosely on the end of the belt so I had the 26lbs. Then, I would go find 20ft of water somewhere, go to the bottom, swim around a few minutes to get comfortable and then start dropping the weights one at a time until I get a little uncomfortably light with no air in the BC, then add one 2lb weight back. Then, I would go home and redistribute that remaining weight, but that's another conversation.

The good news is that you're right now so over weighted that it should be very easy to drop 10lbs immediately, which will solve 90% of your problem. Then, you can do the tinkering to fine tune it on future dives. If I had to guess, you will probably find 12lbs gives you a little reserve weight and is nicely divisible by 3lb weights.

 

[krbailey]

I follow your logic but in the water with 20 lbs, I was unable to descend with no air in my BCD (a rental) and completely exhaling. At 24 lbs, I was eye-level in the water holding 1/2 a breath. By the end of my trip (total of 38 dives), I did feel that I was a little heavy but with 2 dives in the morning & 2 dives in the afternoon, I didn't have the time/energy to get back in the water and do another weight check.

During my dives, I was able to achieve neutral buoyancy and typically controlled my depth through my breathing.

 

[LowVizWiz]

Is there a BCD out there that will hold weights in the upper part of the jacket? FYI - I had 6 lbs in each BCD pocket, 10 lbs on my weight belt & 2 lbs on my tank strap. I was diving in warm salt water with a 3mm full wetsuit. I'm about 6'1" & 230 lbs, average build.

Or is there another solution?

The answers to your questions are:

1. Yes, some bcds have "trim pockets" in the upper back of the bcd.
2. Yes, find out how much weight you really need. Perform a buoyancy check ASAP!

It's not rare to see new divers overweighted like yourself. I remember carrying 28 lbs. for warm water dives wearing a 3mm suit and an AL80 during my OW dives. It's painfully obvious why most new divers don't have good buoyancy or proper trim. It's very difficult to do anything being overweighted. A lot of instructors just do the 10% rule which would put you at 23-24 pounds. That rule sux! It's the lazy approach! It may work for little Susy who's 130 pounds wet with sand in her pockets, but it does not work at all for bigger guys like you and me.

Hopefully you performed a buoyancy check during your Peak Performance class? If you did, that would or should have revealed the excess weight you are carrying. The first step to improve and correct your buoyancy and trim is to find out how much weight you really need!

While some gear set ups are much better at improving your trim and help you have better buoyancy, you can achieve proper trim and buoyancy with what you have now. It just may take some practice.

Just as a frame of reference at 6'5", 250 pounds and no wetsuit; I only need to carry 10 pounds if I'm diving an AL80 and mostly to be able to hold a safety stop. If I added a wetsuit I may add another 5 pounds of lead. If I dive my usual steel tanks I carry no weight at all.

---------- Post added November 6th, 2014 at 09:30 AM ----------

I follow your logic but in the water with 20 lbs, I was unable to descend with no air in my BCD (a rental) and completely exhaling. At 24 lbs, I was eye-level in the water holding 1/2 a breath. By the end of my trip (total of 38 dives), I did feel that I was a little heavy but with 2 dives in the morning & 2 dives in the afternoon, I didn't have the time/energy to get back in the water and do another weight check.

During my dives, I was able to achieve neutral buoyancy and typically controlled my depth through my breathing.

You must have typed this while I was typing my response...

It is possible that the bdc you were renting had way too much padding and excess fabric which would make it more buoyant increasing the need for weight. 24 pounds still seems excessive. I also assume your wetsuit is fairly new? That would also make it harder to sink. Wearing 10 pounds and an AL80 I have to kick down to be able to drop the first 15-20 feet.

If you are considering purchasing your own gear it would make dialing in your weight needs a little simpler and I would definitively recommend a stainless steel back plate and wing if that's the case.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

I weigh about 20lbs less than you, but I'm still surprised your additional 20lbs requires an additional 10lbs of lead to counterbalance. Other than checking to make sure the BC isn't trapping air, I'm stumped. Hopefully, someone else will chime in with a similar experience.

 

[krbailey]

I have about 70+ dives and typically dive 1-2 times a year. I'm hoping over time the weight needed (and my weight!) will decrease. My last trip (Cozumel), I felt much more relaxed in the water. I was able to hover at a constant depth with no issues (a safety stop used to have me going up/down by as much as 5 ft). Overall, a much better experience.