OW course and regulator failures

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petIQe

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Hi Scuba Divers,
I'm sorry if there's another topic about this question... I didn't find any.

My question: Why do they teach at PADI OW courses that when a regulator fails, it will ALWAYS FREE-FLOW? Or it was just that one instructor I heard saying this?
What about other training agencies?


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Well, first of all there isn't much that can go wrong on a scuba regulator. Failures are uncommon and all failure modes that I am aware of will cause it to free flow.

In any case, in 30 years of diving I've never seen or heard of a regulator failing in such a way that it just blocked. In fact, I haven't seen many regulators fail at all other than from freezing open, which is far and away the most common thing to have happen.

Other failures I've seen have been hoses breaking due to age and/or poor maintenance. This is obviously an avoidable problem if you inspect them regularly and replace them when they are showing signs of age.

As far as I'm aware, PADI doesn't require instructors to teach that regulators "fail safe" by free flowing, although it is common for instructors to mention this because it can help students to gain trust in the equipment, which is important for relaxing. The PADI materials themselves address the functions of the regulator but don't mention this, as far as I recall.

R..
 
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Yes, I know that scuba regulators are much more simple than people would think, so there are not many things that can break. But still, there IS a possibility of a failure that can cause the regulator to stop delivering breathing gas.
Yes, I agree that saying that it is very unlikely to happen helps beginners to gain more trust and that it's very important, especially at the beginning.
NAUI training materials say that free-flow is the most common thing that can happen when something goes wrong. It does not deny the possibility of the closed first stage problem.
(Don't get me wrong, it's not about the training systems!)
But if it's not a PADI requrement, than it was just that instructor.


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Discussion about and breathing for 30 seconds from a simulated free flowing regulator IS a part of the PADI OW course.. I don't say they will always free flow during failure, but I do explain the most common way a regulator will fail is by free flowing and because of that PADI requires they learn how to breath from a simulated free flowing regulator..

Confined Water Dive #3 Old Course

or

Confined Water Dive #4 New Course

The PADI OW manual Page 160 says, "Modern regulators are highly reliable and designed so that if they fail, they release air continuously (called freeflow)."
 
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That's ok. A certified diver must know breathing from a free-flowing regulator. As well as they must know what to do when there is an out-of-air situation. So they could be told that when there is a no-air failure (which is very unlikely to happen), do the same as they would just run out of air "normally".


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But if it's not a PADI requrement, than it was just that instructor.

Correct. PADI does not require instructors to make this claim and nowhere that I'm aware of in their materials do they assert that all failures cause a free flow.

However, free flows account for the vast majority of regulator failures. This much is clear. If that number isn't 100% then just based on personal experience I'm going to say that I'm fairly confident that it is well above 99%. I wouldn't exclude the theoretical possibility that a regulator could "jam and block" but if it is possible then the chance of this happening is so small that I believe we can ignore it as a potential risk. Your chance of getting hit on the head by a meteorite is probably higher :)

Also, Joe is correct to point out that training for a free flowing regulator is a routine part of scuba training regardless of system. PADI does it and as far as I know all other systems do it too.

R..
 
There are many ways a reg can fail and stop delivering air.. A broken spring, an extruded O-ring an exploded hose.. and even the free flow failure mode can result in the remaining air being wasted very fast, so the end result is very quickly - nothing to breath...Then there is the potential for water in the tank and no dip tube, contaminants in the tank blocking the regulator..
 
For me, it isn't a question. It CAN happen. Period. The question is that if it should or should not be mentioned during a course and that if it's good to say it can not happen.


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like what was said above, the first stages pretty much have to fail open. There isn't a whole lot that can cause the first stage to not deliver air, it goes against the design. Since it is a spring going against the pressure of the tank, that spring can't be strong enough to block air flow, though if it is weak enough or backs out it could be rather difficult to breathe, but not impossible. Either way the likelyhood of the main spring failing in a first stage during is 0. The only time that could happen is due to operator error, i.e. not getting it serviced basically ever and the spring corrodes, odds of that are also pretty much 0.

Second stages can fail closed, the upstream design of the Jetstream and Xstream can and will fail closed in the advent of a HP seat failure in the first stage, IF and ONLY IF, you are an idiot and don't use a Poseidon hose on a first stage that doesn't have an OPV. Which they tell you about in the manual, and again is your fault. These second stages will never fail to freeflow due to IP creep which is the most common regulator failure and will in fact lock up to the point that you can't breathe off of them. The OPV in this case releases the IP down to where the second stages are functional as normal and as such are a better design than a normal second stage where it will freeflow into your mouth. Bad news there. Again, operator error is the only thing that will cause that second stage to lock up, and if you think you're holier than though and choose to ignore the manufacturers recommendations like that, well you deserve to eat it.

The case that Steve pointed out was again operator error, the reg didn't fail, the idiot who serviced it did it wrong, so again not a case of the reg failing. The "normal" second stages are designed to fail open, the main cause of failure is IP creep in the first stage, so they will bleed the pressure off to prevent hose rupture, this will usually come from your primary as it is generally tuned to be more sensitive than the secondary. I have seen many regulator failures, but have never seen one fail closed, not to say that it can't happen, but under normal operation with proper service the only thing that should go wrong is an O-ring failure, or the HP seat fails, both of which will still allow you to breathe, albeit with a great deal of difficulty.
 

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