Am I too cautious?

[Patoux01]

Hey guys,

I've recently had a few arguments with a bunch of people because of diving in conditions that I consider unsafe, while everybody goes with the "meh, everybody does it"-thing.
A few examples of the situations:

1) South West Rocks in Oz is pretty notorious for diving with grey nurse sharks, and it has a nice "cave". There's no branching there, but turn your torch off and it's suddenly pretty dark. It's also pretty narrow at some points, on 2 tanks sidemount you have to be on your side in some places or you're not getting through. See here for the "map" (sorry, it's the site of a dive center). You have to show you have enough air to make it through the cave before the guide lets you go in, and everybody is required to have one torch, and turn it on before going in (checked by the guide as well). Does it seem crazy to not go in there with a single tank and single torch? Seeing those are group dives with insta-buddies (in fact, my buddy didn't even notice me), I was mainly by myself in there, and so were the others.
2) Group diving with more or less insta-buddies, I see a girl by herself, her buddy was 30m away at least, so I decide to stay "not too far" until her buddy comes back. When explaining to them that a buddy is supposed to be nearby, they simply didn't care. "I could see her, that's enough". Those weren't strangers, although I had never dived with them, we're members of the same club, before I get all the "mind your own business"-haters.
3) Same group diving, I notice 2 guys going in what seemed to be a ~30m swim-through at 15-20m down with absolutely no access to the surface. The 2nd one got in at the moment the 1st one got out. I was on single tank and told my buddy we weren't going in there and went around.
4) Diving on the Coolidge, people going to the engine room (48m, obviously IN the wreck) on a single tank.

Makes me wonder if I'm too cautious... thoughts? Safety first, but I feel like I'm too worried. And should you tell those people that their practice is considered unsafe to most standards? I had a few people questionning me on "but why do you take twins if we all use a single tank?", and even though they understood the explanation, I don't think it convinced anyone to change their diving (not that it's my goal, but I feel like some more safety wouldn't hurt too much).

 

[tomfcrist]

Unless you have some sort of moral obligation, let people make their own decisions.

That being said, you have a little guy sitting on your shoulder telling you that something is too risky for you, or that the juice is not worth the squeeze...stay true to that. Don't do something that is beyond your acceptable risk limitations...ever.

 

[drrich2]

Does it seem crazy to not go in there with a single tank and single torch?

No. Sounds like a situation similar to a so-called 'swim through,' and if you're not comfortable with it, don't do it.

When explaining to them that a buddy is supposed to be nearby, they simply didn't care.

You approached them personally and shared your concerns. Some would've left well enough alone, but you intervened in a way that's not too over the top, it seems, and if one of them is found dead later from a diving accident, you'll have some peace of mind. Now, they're adults so let them alone. No longer your concern.

I was on single tank and told my buddy we weren't going in there and went around.

Nothing wrong with that.

Diving on the Coolidge, people going to the engine room (48m, obviously IN the wreck) on a single tank.

Doesn't sound wise, so don't.

In a nutshell, it sounds like you dive around people who engage in risky practices outside your comfort zone that you don't agree with. So don't do those things. This should only be a problem if you are diving with a buddy who is determined to do these things, or pressures you to do so.

Pick your buddy with some care, discussing personal limits.

Let other adults be adults and live (or die) with the consequences of their decisions. A modest, friendly suggestion showing care & concern rather than critical condescension, backing off promptly if rebuffed and no ill will, might be an option in some scenarios. But on the assumption they've all at least had an Open Water course & got certified, they are presumed warned.

Richard.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Risk is personal: you have your threshold, others have theirs. What you and your buddy do or don't do is nobody else's business - you should be as cautious as you like and your buddy is willing to put up with. By the same token, what others are doing is none of your damn business - fellow club members or not.

 

[flyin01]

The things you have listed are things divers do all the time. Unfortunatly most are not trained or equipped to do safely. If you are choosing to not follow the group and do what is comfortable for you then keep it up and stay safe.

 

[TSandM]

I don't think you are too cautious. I'm honestly not sure there is such a thing as too cautious in diving, unless being extremely cautious is keeping you from diving at all.

I think a lot of divers don't consider the "what ifs". What if somebody had a free-flow halfway through one of those swim-throughs, where you can't turn around to donate or to get gas from someone else? What if somebody kicks the viz to mud inside the engine room? What if you lose track of the guide inside the wreck -- do you know how to get out? Every single dive we ever do has what-ifs, if you stop and think about it (and most people don't). Simple, shallow dives don't have a lot of them, and an open water class is supposed to prepare you to deal with most, although how many people have practiced air-sharing since they finished their class? The deeper the dive, or the more complex, the more what-ifs there are, and the better prepared you need to be to deal with them.

I think you are being wise, but then again, I backed myself into a funny little corner of the diving world where everybody agrees with me. I didn't like the "same day, same ocean" mentality of what I saw of resort diving, so I found another path.

 

[soccerrefjason]

Diving within your own limits, and being able to state them beforehand is what makes a good buddy in my book. You are doing fine. Let not the naysayers sway you from politely discussing things you saw that concerned you. Two things can happen... You advise and the recipient ignores, or you advise and the recipient acts on it. Btw I'm not saying your advice will always be good and if you become the recipient of some advice at a later date for whatever reason try and be as open minded as you hope the folks you spoke to were.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Others have already responded better than I could ever have so I'll pass on giving advice, but I fixated on the word "torch".
Doesn't fire kind of get smothered and go out underwater?
Why do you guys down under and the Brits still use the term "torch" instead of light. I always wondered about that.
Kind of like calling an automobile a "carriage".

 

[Wingy]

Why dont you guys call the boot of a car the boot not a trunk? Why are you guys still hanging around in feet and inches with Libya and Myanmar? There is no fire.....although if you have a look at old cousteau diving docos they used ''torches''.

A torch it is

 

[Storker]

Makes me wonder if I'm too cautious...

Not IMO. The examples you give are stuff I'd decline, too.

I had a few people questionning me on "but why do you take twins if we all use a single tank?"

"Because I like diving them"


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