Will shooting off a DSMB help protect you from oncoming boats or is this wrong?

[Z Gear]

All right everyone I want to lay this to rest but I need to ask this straight out and please give me a straight answer like the one DAN has. At this point I really want to know the following:

How many feel like DAN that this is not a good safety feature in the aspect that it will not keep you safe from oncoming boaters when surfacing? But is a good boat marker for picking up purposes.

How many disagree with this point of view and feel it can be used to alert oncomming boaters from running into you when surfacing.
As well as used as a boat pick up marker.

Again I want to get a better idea of how most experienced divers would choose use this device. If most think I am over reacting about using this a signal device to prevent an accident from oncomming boaters than perhaps I am in the wrong, and I would reconsider my initial thoughts on it. I think some already have said I was over reacting but I dismissed it as only a fluke and was not how the majority felt. I am not sure now so I wanted to get this cleared up.

IF YOU TIRED OF THIS thread it is understandable, I just need to know so if it really is dangerous to use this device (for alerting boaters before surfacing) I will not use it, it just is not clear to me at this time. Sorry and thanks for the patience.

Here is the post that kind of got me rethinking this whole thing.

DAN VOLKNER WRITES :

"This thread is really blowing my mind....it seems many people actually believe that shooting a bag actually will "Protect" them on surfacing -- from boats in the area.

In actual fact, this is a great tool for your own Dive boat to know where you are if your DSMB comes up in their line of site .....But....and the big but, is the threat of the OTHER boaters....the far greater THREAT to you as a diver about to surface....
The DSMB is a pathetic FAILURE in it's ability to "ward off" any boater going much over 20 mph. They just won't see it in time, they won't be looking for it, and many wont care.
Belief that these buoys impart some magical protection for you, is just plain foolish.

I am fine using a DSMB from a tech dive or recreational dive where they are requested by the boat....But I would NEVER surface with any expectation that any of the boats in the area have seen or care about the DSMB. If you think the DSMB protects you from boaters, you have not been diving long enough....

Even with the DSMB, I am going to bridge the last 10 feet to the surface, listening for prop noise and doppler shift to indicate a boat quickly approaching....When it sounds safe....I am going to be surfacing and spinning 360 to be sure there is no rapidly approaching boat, and I will do this with my Wing ( BC) neutral or dumped, allowing an immediate jackknife and dive downward, should a rapidly approaching drunken boater be headed for me. When I see it is clear, I will then signal for my buddies to ascend.
We don't have need for this nonsense in Palm Beach, because the charter boats we use follow our torpedo float, and they keep drunken boaters away.

You do need to assume that MOST boaters are ignorant drunks, and that they will be clueless about divers and DSMBs. This is the safest and most practical assumption you can make about boaters.

Watch the DSMB video tutorials....practice the deployment, use it--but NEVER assume this has much to do with keeping you safe from boaters."

 

[NWA395]

I personally think word "protect" is a misnomer.
In the aspect you mention, it "may" provide a visual que for a boater that "something" may be there. On our local fresh water lakes, I doubt most boaters or jet skiers know what a SMB is or what it means.


Local lake diving (shore entry) if I know I may miss my exit point, no hesitation to shoot a DSMB. Practicing deploying SMB, yep, ocean dives, yep.

As you state, good listening skills prior to surfacing and visually checking the surface..

 

[KeithG]

dsmb will help a trained dive boat captain find you.

they are not a protection device from idiots. they may actually be a target.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

Location, Location, Location - it is all about location and situational awareness. You need to know where you are diving, where you are and how boaters behave in the area you are diving.

A DSMB is only a tool - used properly, improperly or not at all - you can still get hurt. But you mentioned that already. Those that need a specific example in order to deploy an SMB or DSMB will be those most likely in trouble. Those that try to think ahead and use self awareness may be in less trouble but they can still get hurt. Life happens and so do stupid accidents - you may or may not be the initiator but you can still get hurt... Do everything you can to limit those chances for an accident - learn to use the tools, when to use them and when to find a safe haven.

 

[scoobydrew]

I have not read your other threads on this subject.

My 2 cents:

Setting off a DSMB aint gonna hurt.

I am a boat captain in Grand Cayman, assuming that I am an ignorant drunk is fair enough but not when I am driving the boat. We have lots of shore diving all around the island and some times people pop up where they should not be. We diligently watch the water for bubbles but when there is a bit of chop on the surface they can be hard to spot, I wish divers did use DSMBs more at least when surfacing out in the blue.

That said, I do know that stupid wave runner users who have no idea about what happens in the ocean who indeed are often drunk may not have any idea what is at the bottom of a DSMB. My last job was in South Korea and over there idiot wave runner people used to use DSMBs as obstacles to slalom around.

 

[Hawkwood]

You will not get a definitive answer because there isn't one.

A DSMB or an SMB is not a warning for most recreational "boaters". A dive flag is a warning to boaters.

Those boat launches in my area that have signs regarding scuba divers show a picture of a dive flag. They don't show a picture of a "signal tube".

The training for a pleasure craft operators card (Canada) mentions dive flags...it doesn't mention signal tubes.

Risk Management! Decide what the risks of your dive are, plan appropriately, and carry the appropriate equipment to mitigate the risks.

 

[Zieg]

So when you say you want to lay this is rest you ask more questions, yet you never seem to be satisfied with some of the answers given. You seem to be up to four questions on the dsmb subject. As for 'DAN' on your first post on this thread, I assume you're referring to Dan Volker. He is right you know, a surface marker is a great idea to let your boat know where you're located, but it's no guarantee that you won't get you ass rundown by another boater. Hell, having a dive flag won't even guarantee that.

 

[TSandM]

Many boaters have no education about flags, warnings or floats at all. Many don't even know what a dive flag means. If an orange object pops to the surface in front of one, they may avoid it, or go over to see what it is. Soem boaters and jet ski operators have been known to use them as slalom markers!

However, if you are diving off a boat, sending up a bag lets the boat know where you are, so the captain, if he's on the ball, can try to warn off other boats in your vicinity, so in that way it is useful.

It is ALWAYS your responsibility to ensure you are surfacing in an area where it is safe to surface. Stopping in the shallows to look and listen for traffic is always a good idea.

 

[Z Gear]

You will not get a definitive answer because there isn't one.

A DSMB or an SMB is not a warning for most recreational "boaters". A dive flag is a warning to boaters.

Those boat launches in my area that have signs regarding scuba divers show a picture of a dive flag. They don't show a picture of a "signal tube".

The training for a pleasure craft operators card (Canada) mentions dive flags...it doesn't mention signal tubes.

Risk Management! Decide what the risks of your dive are, plan appropriately, and carry the appropriate equipment to mitigate the risks.

I guess this answer really stays in my mind as something I should not forget. It does make sense to me, and I really hope to others who are new to diving or even new to using the DSMB. Your last comment, which is a pretty good general rule of thought,is probably the best message to hit me so far.

Risk management! Decide what the risks of your dive are, plan appropriately and carry the appropriate equipment to mitigate the risks.
Thanks for posting again and helping me with this.

---------- Post added May 10th, 2015 at 07:53 PM ----------[/SIZE]

Many boaters have no education about flags, warnings or floats at all. Many don't even know what a dive flag means. If an orange object pops to the surface in front of one, they may avoid it, or go over to see what it is. Soem boaters and jet ski operators have been known to use them as slalom markers!

However, if you are diving off a boat, sending up a bag lets the boat know where you are, so the captain, if he's on the ball, can try to warn off other boats in your vicinity, so in that way it is useful.

It is ALWAYS your responsibility to ensure you are surfacing in an area where it is safe to surface. Stopping in the shallows to look and listen for traffic is always a good idea.

Another good point you, Dan and others have make that I keep over looking when stopping near shallows is to listen for traffic before going to surface.

 

[KeithG]

I don't blame you for being tired of this topic, I realize its over kill but I needed to get this straight. Again apologies and thanks for your patience.
.....


If you really feel I am abusing this forum than I suggest you report my thread and just have them pull for controversial reasons or what ever you think is unfair about it. I want to remain respectful to all but I also want to be able to feel it is a flame free forum to ask questions if something is not clear to me.

DSMB might be totally clear to you know on where and how to use it but it was not for me, that is the purpose of the questions. Its not the tech or advance section so why don't you cut me some slack.

Please do not get defensive. You must be from the younger generation. Us cranky old guys can only keep track of 1 thread at a time.

You will have to make allowances for us. Our ability to multitask a 10 second attention span is extremely limited. We want a single thread that we can beat to death before we go onto the next thread.

And your threads are entertaining. So keep posting. But it makes my head hurt when there is more than 1 active thread dealing with the same subject.

Cheers...