Forgive me for this possible dumb question...

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Bigeclipse

Contributor
Messages
391
Reaction score
30
Location
USA - New York
# of dives
100 - 199
Forgive me for this possible dumb question but why are the "tech" style diving lights (if that's what they are even call) SOOOOOO expensive. Im talking the ones that have the battery pack as a separate unit which what looks like a cable going to the light itself which has this metal bracket looking thing that you slide your fingers over. A brand example is Halcyon. Please enlighten me why these lights are so expensive? I am a fairly new diver. I have only made ~40 dives but I can see myself going into Tech style diving as I progress so as I buy things I am kind of trying to buy them more towards the tech style. I have been recently looking for a new night dive light and came across these tech style lights and dang....they seem to go from 600+ most being over a grand! Just curious what makes these lights so expensive and why they may be worth that expense. Thanks.
 
Quality based on maximum depth and reliability.

"The only question that's dumb is the one you never ask".
 
As Peter says, depth rating and reliability; also the output is generally better. There is the other factor of economies of scale. They have to pay for the R&D and set up the tooling, but the volume of sales will be less. Also take a backplate and wing - how much must it cost to make a steel plate, purchase some webbing and manufacture a simple buoyancy cell? I'd say it would be far less than a jacket with all the complex stitching and fancy touches, yet they are still generally more expensive as they are less common. 'Price plateau' may also be a factor - i.e. if something is too cheap, the consumer is suspicious about the quality.
 
Typically you get higher quality, they cost more because of the relatively lower volume sold compared to more mainstream items. The prices have come down quite a bit compared to the past.
 
Quality based on maximum depth and reliability.

"The only question that's dumb is the one you never ask".

As Peter says, depth rating and reliability; also the output is generally better. There is the other factor of economies of scale. They have to pay for the R&D and set up the tooling, but the volume of sales will be less. Also take a backplate and wing - how much must it cost to make a steel plate, purchase some webbing and manufacture a simple buoyancy cell? I'd say it would be far less than a jacket with all the complex stitching and fancy touches, yet they are still generally more expensive as they are less common. 'Price plateau' may also be a factor - i.e. if something is too cheap, the consumer is suspicious about the quality.

Typically you get higher quality, they cost more because of the relatively lower volume sold compared to more mainstream items. The prices have come down quite a bit compared to the past.

Also I have noticed many of these lights use the old watt scale as opposed to lumen rating...etc. I know numbers are just that...numbers but all being equal, what you are saying is if you had a 200 dollar regular dive light like a higher end UK light which had the same stats as one of these Tech Styles...then the lighting itself may be the same but durability and such is better with the tech? im Just confused at to what to buy. I checked out my old light and it is a 380 lumen Princeton tech (thought it was 550 but was wrong if you have been following my other threads). Im looking to buy a better light and was considering the Underwater kinetics light cannon eLED with 825 lumen rating and pretty good reviews. Its on sale right now for 130. But then I have come across some of these tech lights being sold used around the 400 dollar mark and its making me think should I save for one of those and deal with my Princeton tec or should I buy a slightly better "non tech" light and buy the tech light later. I will likely not be tech diving for another 2 years anyways.
 
Also I have noticed many of these lights use the old watt scale as opposed to lumen rating...etc. I know numbers are just that...numbers but all being equal, what you are saying is if you had a 200 dollar regular dive light like a higher end UK light which had the same stats as one of these Tech Styles...then the lighting itself may be the same but durability and such is better with the tech? im Just confused at to what to buy. I checked out my old light and it is a 380 lumen Princeton tech (thought it was 550 but was wrong if you have been following my other threads). Im looking to buy a better light and was considering the Underwater kinetics light cannon eLED with 825 lumen rating and pretty good reviews. Its on sale right now for 130. But then I have come across some of these tech lights being sold used around the 400 dollar mark and its making me think should I save for one of those and deal with my Princeton tec or should I buy a slightly better "non tech" light and buy the tech light later. I will likely not be tech diving for another 2 years anyways.

My canister torch is a Greenforce. It irritates me when people talk about light output in terms of wattage. In most houses, we had either a 40W, a 60W or a 100W bulb, but as low energy lighting, such as LED and fluorescent is becoming more widespread, these numbers are irrelevent. They have changed it now, but when I bought mine, the website gave some of the outputs in watts and some in lumen.

I have just Googled the two you are looking at and see they are pistol grip. I have used one of these and really do not like them. They are difficult to stow when you are not using them and really irritate me if I clip them to my BCD. The beauty of a canister torch is they weigh almost nothing in your hand as the battery is fastened to your harness or cylinder.

Light output is key, but also look at battery life. The more expensive canister torches will usually have better batteries and enable longer run times.

For a non-canister dive light, a few of my mates have Kowalskis. They seem quite nice, but I'm not sure if they have them in the states. They still have the problem with stowing when not in use, but I find them less cumbersome than the big yellow klunk-o-matic pistol grip lights.

Kowalski LED diving Torches
 
With tech diving comes depth and a requirement for reliable equipment. What you can get away with as a recreational diver might cause you a lot of grief as a tech diver. As a tech diver, risks increase along with depth and increased bottom time, so you have to ensure what you get will perform as your diving grows, and I can see that's what you are trying to achieve.

A light failure at 10 metres might cause some angst, however you may get a lot of ambient light, sufficient to either continue or be able to safely abort the dive. At say 70m in dirty water, light levels are very low so your gear needs to work or it could be very dark indeed. Also remember much of the tech gear has been developed or designed for cave diving where risks are high and things must work to plan, as compared to recreational gear which can be as simple as a cheap non dive torch that seals to 20m ok.

My personal opinion is you increase risks if you try and do tech diving on the cheap. That's to say "cheap and poor quality" gear (or gear being used past its design point), rather than just cheap but good quality gear. If you take a casing rated to 60m down to 60m you are pushing the envelope and would need to be assured that you have assembled the casing perfectly so it wont leak. Taking a 300m casing down to 60m tends to not stress the better rated casing as much so "hopefully" you get away with less than ideal assembly. I took an Intova camera to 60m (rated at 60m) on my first dive on the HMS Repulse and watched it drown and die in the first 3 min, needless to say I had no pictures of a dive I had been wanting to do for a few years. I now have a GoPro 3+ mounted in a 200m rated casing. Whilst its not a super doper camera, it meets my needs and is a bit over designed for depth, but I am now confident.

You have 40 dives, I would suggest you spend money in becoming a better diver so you better approach your goal of becoming a tech diver. In the mean time you will experience a lot and see what everyone else is using as your experience grows, and then make a better decision about what you actually need. I have a big box with stuff in it I was sure I needed, only to find out many were mere trinkets.

If your current light works fine, hold off a bit, however if you are really busting to get a good one, or your current light sucks, do a lot of homework on cost vs quality, and then see what others in your area as tech divers use and try and get something you feel you can afford but will be useful for a number of years. I have medium quality lights currently (that were cheap but reliable)and am also looking at a quality dive light (perhaps a Hollis) but am waiting for a special before I spend in the vicinity of $500. My current lights work ok so I am not in a rush, although I would love to get a canister light too.

I also need a new wing and have my heart set on a Hollis SM-100 but again they sell for some $1000 and I have a wing (all be it single bladder and simple design), which is in good condition but was cheap to buy and met my needs at the time and still works fine. I however now should use a twin bladder so will upgrade soon.

One of my mistakes was to buy gear in anticipation of doing a course (caused by being ripped off for rental gear on my first tech course, as I paid $300 for rental of a wing and tanks for 4 dives, but failed to ask the rental price until after the fact and when the bill was due). I bought price wisely but (in hindsight) should have waited until after certification and completing some dives.
 
With tech diving comes depth and a requirement for reliable equipment. What you can get away with as a recreational diver might cause you a lot of grief as a tech diver. As a tech diver, risks increase along with depth and increased bottom time, so you have to ensure what you get will perform as your diving grows, and I can see that's what you are trying to achieve.

A light failure at 10 metres might cause some angst, however you may get a lot of ambient light, sufficient to either continue or be able to safely abort the dive. At say 70m in dirty water, light levels are very low so your gear needs to work or it could be very dark indeed. Also remember much of the tech gear has been developed or designed for cave diving where risks are high and things must work to plan, as compared to recreational gear which can be as simple as a cheap non dive torch that seals to 20m ok.

My personal opinion is you increase risks if you try and do tech diving on the cheap. That's to say "cheap and poor quality" gear (or gear being used past its design point), rather than just cheap but good quality gear. If you take a casing rated to 60m down to 60m you are pushing the envelope and would need to be assured that you have assembled the casing perfectly so it wont leak. Taking a 300m casing down to 60m tends to not stress the better rated casing as much so "hopefully" you get away with less than ideal assembly. I took an Intova camera to 60m (rated at 60m) on my first dive on the HMS Repulse and watched it drown and die in the first 3 min, needless to say I had no pictures of a dive I had been wanting to do for a few years. I now have a GoPro 3+ mounted in a 200m rated casing. Whilst its not a super doper camera, it meets my needs and is a bit over designed for depth, but I am now confident.

You have 40 dives, I would suggest you spend money in becoming a better diver so you better approach your goal of becoming a tech diver. In the mean time you will experience a lot and see what everyone else is using as your experience grows, and then make a better decision about what you actually need. I have a big box with stuff in it I was sure I needed, only to find out many were mere trinkets.

If your current light works fine, hold off a bit, however if you are really busting to get a good one, or your current light sucks, do a lot of homework on cost vs quality, and then see what others in your area as tech divers use and try and get something you feel you can afford but will be useful for a number of years. I have medium quality lights currently (that were cheap but reliable)and am also looking at a quality dive light (perhaps a Hollis) but am waiting for a special before I spend in the vicinity of $500. My current lights work ok so I am not in a rush, although I would love to get a canister light too.

I also need a new wing and have my heart set on a Hollis SM-100 but again they sell for some $1000 and I have a wing (all be it single bladder and simple design), which is in good condition but was cheap to buy and met my needs at the time and still works fine. I however now should use a twin bladder so will upgrade soon.

One of my mistakes was to buy gear in anticipation of doing a course (caused by being ripped off for rental gear on my first tech course, as I paid $300 for rental of a wing and tanks for 4 dives, but failed to ask the rental price until after the fact and when the bill was due). I bought price wisely but (in hindsight) should have waited until after certification and completing some dives.

Thank you for your input. I definitely appreciate it. I do take diving very seriously and I am not trying to rush into anything BUT at the same time, I don't want to buy something only to have to buy a better something later. It also depends what that something is....for example, Dive computers are changing quite a lot every year because as we all know...electronics are also changing every year. So I wont by a new dive computer to replace my current one simply for tech diving as I know I wont be tech diving for a couple years anyways and by then who knows what dive computers will be like. However, I figured a good light....is a good light, regardless of when you buy it. The whole reason for even looking at a light was the fact that My father and I dove a wreck last year in lake George which was extremely dark at the 100ft mark. The Princeton tech light I used was fine for my viewing of the ship but the pictures and video we took came out really dark. It is one of those sealife cameras with photo and video light. I know the camera isn't exactly a good c camera for dark photos but we were hoping with my primary light and the camera lights pointed at the ship, that we would get a couple "ok" pics. We were wrong. My Princeton tec light did help a little when we compare pics we took using it and not. Anyways long story short, we were debating getting a new camera light OR better primary hand lights since our current ones kind of stink anyways. I decided to go for the better primary light as I will use that more than a new camera light. So anyways, this is what is truly my goal at the moment....to take some better video/photos on the dive we are doing in two weeks on that same wreck. I do get that they likely will still not be great but again I can only afford either a better camera light OR primary light and I was hoping a brighter primary light would give a few somewhat decent shots. hope this all makes sense and sorry for the long write up.
 
Thank you for your input. I definitely appreciate it. I do take diving very seriously and I am not trying to rush into anything BUT at the same time, I don't want to buy something only to have to buy a better something later. It also depends what that something is....for example, Dive computers are changing quite a lot every year because as we all know...electronics are also changing every year. So I wont by a new dive computer to replace my current one simply for tech diving as I know I wont be tech diving for a couple years anyways and by then who knows what dive computers will be like. However, I figured a good light....is a good light, regardless of when you buy it. The whole reason for even looking at a light was the fact that My father and I dove a wreck last year in lake George which was extremely dark at the 100ft mark. The Princeton tech light I used was fine for my viewing of the ship but the pictures and video we took came out really dark. It is one of those sealife cameras with photo and video light. I know the camera isn't exactly a good c camera for dark photos but we were hoping with my primary light and the camera lights pointed at the ship, that we would get a couple "ok" pics. We were wrong. My Princeton tec light did help a little when we compare pics we took using it and not. Anyways long story short, we were debating getting a new camera light OR better primary hand lights since our current ones kind of stink anyways. I decided to go for the better primary light as I will use that more than a new camera light. So anyways, this is what is truly my goal at the moment....to take some better video/photos on the dive we are doing in two weeks on that same wreck. I do get that they likely will still not be great but again I can only afford either a better camera light OR primary light and I was hoping a brighter primary light would give a few somewhat decent shots. hope this all makes sense and sorry for the long write up.

If you think some of the canister torches are expensive, wait until you see the price of dedicated photography/video lights and strobes....
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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