NAUI Nitrox course - "Recognition" course v. "certification" course

[ScubaTexas]

Does anyone know what the practical use difference is between the NAUI Recognition Program and the NAUI certification program for Nitrox?

According to NAUI's website on the Nitrox course, "this course may be taught as a NAUI Recognition Program if the open water training dives are not included. Recognition may be upgraded to EANx Diver certification upon completetion (within six months) of the required dives under supervision of a NAUI EANx Instructor."

In other words, does this mean that if I take the NAUI course as a Recognition course I can still dive nitrox even though I don't have the "certification"?

[jbd]

From the S & P. NAUI course--(paraphrased) leads to certification. Divers who are certiifed can be permitted to dive at the designated level without supervision....

NAUI programs--A NAUI activity that does not lead to certification. NAUI programs may lead to "recognition" or "experience" cards being issued.

I think the idea of the recognition card in the case of nitrox traiing is to allow you to do the classwork during the off season and then do the 2 or 3 dives that lead to certification when diving season comes around.

I interpret it to mean you cannot use nitrox untill the cert dives are completed.

[scubatoys]

Here's the deal. Some agencies require you do a few dives to get certified, some like TDI say no diving required. Naui always required dives... but a lot of the instructors, including myself, complained as thinking that was kinda dumb. What do I teach someone doing a nitrox dive? How to clear a mask with extra oxygen?? Push the inflator button different because you have a 32 mix?? Uh...No.

It's really a class of learning the physics, the science, the planning. And that can be done in a class room. But when they were going to remove the requirements of the 2 dives, some old moss back instructors screamed that it's a dive class - the students must dive...

So to keep both camps happy, they said fine... If you teach them about Nitrox will give them a card that says "Nitrox". Anyone in the world will honor it and let you dive Nitrox. But if you want to make your students do some dives, we give them one that says "Nitrox Diver".

It's crazy here... I'll go out to a little training pond, and see some guys getting ready to go in wearing nitrox tanks... max depth in the pond is 25 feet. Ask them what their doing - they say "finishing our certification class". I ask, "what is your learning objective for this dive", they say "huh??"

[jbd]

oops--missed a line

[cancun mark]

This sounds kinda like a referral to me.

I had this discussion over and over with PADI execs, and they say that while we are right that nitrox really has no skills underwater, that planning and executing a dive or two is the essential application of the knowlege and planning skills learned in the theory section. And a good excuse to go diving. 25 feet on nitrox does seem a little silly though.

[MB]

Naui always required dives... but a lot of the instructors... complained as thinking that was kinda dumb. What do I teach someone doing a nitrox dive? How to clear a mask with extra oxygen?? Push the inflator button different because you have a 32 mix?? ... But when they were going to remove the requirements of the 2 dives, some old moss back instructors screamed that it's a dive class - the students must dive...

I'll go out to a little training pond, and see some guys getting ready to go in wearing nitrox tanks... max depth in the pond is 25 feet. Ask them what their doing - they say "finishing our certification class". I ask, "what is your learning objective for this dive", they say "huh??"

Agreed - the two nitrox options that NAUI offers is a compromise made for marketing purposes. NAUI did not like seeing so many potential students pass from taking a NAUI class because the requirements for Agency XY or Z were simpler. Thus was born the no-dive recognition option. Take the recognition class and a person still gets a card, and still can obtain a nitrox fill at a fill station or rent a nitrox cylinder.

So, why do the mossbacks think its reasonable to require dives in a nitrox class? Its not the math that counts - heck, my calculator doesn't actually work under water, so that's not going to help. And my inflator button works the same whether 21% or 40% come out of my cylinder. But diving requires judgement calls, and nitrox diving requires additional judgements. We all know that there are cyber divers, and textbook divers, and classroom divers who can do the math, physics and other knowledge-based stuff, but who do not make good desicions around (or under) water. I teach a fair amount of nitrox, always require two dives, and I have yet to end a class where the required dives did not result in some good learning.

Example: You've prepared a mix for an 85' dive. The dive boat gets to the site and there are two fishing boats tied in. Captain of the dive op scratches that site, and moves to a deeper wreck with a bottom of 135', but with the deck at 105, the wheelhouse at 95' and some light structure starting at 60. Maybe Ol Mossback would see the issues and opportunities right away for this dive, but would the person who just completed her on-line or classroom-only recognition class be fully prepped to adjust the dive plan? What a great opportunity for an instructor to seize this teachable moment and lead some decision-making judgement calls. How many ways could this dive plan be altered on the fly (but before jumping in the water)? What risks would the new nitrox users face. Let's throw in issues involving currents and a host of other un-planned contingencies...

I've also used the required dives to help students fine tune their buoyancy, make adjustments to divers' weight requirements (and thus lower the workload), and help divers improve their air consumption so that the full benefits of nitrox become available. We've managed to sneak in a few new skills as well (deploying a blob, retrieving an anchor, etc) even tho they have nothing to do with nitrox. We sometimes forget that divers learn as they go - people aren't born with advanced dive skills. And folks will learn good and bad habits as they go. Instructors who are worth their spit should be trying to reduce the learning of bad habits, and increase their oportunitiies to teach good dive habits.

As for the class doing the nitrox dive in a 25' pond: If they don't know what the objective of a training dive is, they should get their money back. If the instructor didn't help them establish an objective, could we recall his/her instructor status please???

[jbd]

Agreed - the two nitrox options that NAUI offers is a compromise made for marketing purposes. NAUI did not like seeing so many potential students pass from taking a NAUI class because the requirements for Agency XY or Z were simpler. Thus was born the no-dive recognition option. Take the recognition class and a person still gets a card, and still can obtain a nitrox fill at a fill station or rent a nitrox cylinder.

So, why do the mossbacks think its reasonable to require dives in a nitrox class? Its not the math that counts - heck, my calculator doesn't actually work under water, so that's not going to help. And my inflator button works the same whether 21% or 40% come out of my cylinder. But diving requires judgement calls, and nitrox diving requires additional judgements. We all know that there are cyber divers, and textbook divers, and classroom divers who can do the math, physics and other knowledge-based stuff, but who do not make good desicions around (or under) water. I teach a fair amount of nitrox, always require two dives, and I have yet to end a class where the required dives did not result in some good learning.

Example: You've prepared a mix for an 85' dive. The dive boat gets to the site and there are two fishing boats tied in. Captain of the dive op scratches that site, and moves to a deeper wreck with a bottom of 135', but with the deck at 105, the wheelhouse at 95' and some light structure starting at 60. Maybe Ol Mossback would see the issues and opportunities right away for this dive, but would the person who just completed her on-line or classroom-only recognition class be fully prepped to adjust the dive plan? What a great opportunity for an instructor to seize this teachable moment and lead some decision-making judgement calls. How many ways could this dive plan be altered on the fly (but before jumping in the water)? What risks would the new nitrox users face. Let's throw in issues involving currents and a host of other un-planned contingencies...

I've also used the required dives to help students fine tune their buoyancy, make adjustments to divers' weight requirements (and thus lower the workload), and help divers improve their air consumption so that the full benefits of nitrox become available. We've managed to sneak in a few new skills as well (deploying a blob, retrieving an anchor, etc) even tho they have nothing to do with nitrox. We sometimes forget that divers learn as they go - people aren't born with advanced dive skills. And folks will learn good and bad habits as they go. Instructors who are worth their spit should be trying to reduce the learning of bad habits, and increase their oportunitiies to teach good dive habits.

As for the class doing the nitrox dive in a 25' pond: If they don't know what the objective of a training dive is, they should get their money back. If the instructor didn't help them establish an objective, could we recall his/her instructor status please???

Heaven forbid!?!? You mean we still gotta have objectives when we teach?? :11: I thought that was only for the ITC

[scubatoys]

Oh, don't get me wrong, there is no doubt that anytime an inexperienced diver can dive with a good instructor, divemaster, or even other good divers, there is a great opportunity to learn. We are all learning on most every dive we do...

But when it's the middle of winter, lake temp 42 degrees, and I've got some customers heading to belize for a live aboard and they want to dive Nitrox... Making them jump into the only close place to here - and knocking out 2 mandatory dives - is probably just a waste of their time, effort, and body heat.

About the only thing they will learn from those dives is texas lakes do not have good vis, and it's hard to hit a MOD of a 32 mix in a 25 foot training quarry.

[UGA]

So what about someone who gets the "recognition" course card, and doesn't do any nitrox dives within the 6 months, but 8 months later starts diving nitrox and dives nitrox regularly for the next few years?

Does that person need to take the class over again, since he didn't comply with the NAUI rules?? Get check-out dives?

[moxie]

Scubatoys said it right. The 2 dives don't add anything pertinent. Sure, 2 dives with an instructor is always a plus, and various agencies give "tuneups' or "buoyancy seminars" for that purpose. But for getting nitrox certified, go to a SSI or SDI shop or other agency that gives you full certification without dives. IMHO.