Computer advice!?!?!

[LoCz]

Hi. A few of you probably know that im a diving newbie so im posting around for advice and opinions on gear. Can somebody recommend a computer for diving. So far iv looked around and im not sure wether to get air intergrated or wrist mounted. From what i have read i will probably go for the Aladin Pro Ultra. However advice is what im here for ...can you help please ?

:idea:

 

[BillP]

Hi LoCz:

From the way you've worded your question, I'd say that you're too early in your search to be asking, "which computer?" At this point you should still be asking, "what features?" I'm sure that we all have our favorite dive computer, but what's best for me might not be best for you.

How much are you willing to spend?

How "conservative" or "liberal" of a decompression algorithm do you want/need?

It's pretty important to decide if you want air integrated or not early on. If air integrated do you want it on a hose or hoseless? (Did you know that you can get air integrated and wrist mounted?)

What are the mounting options? Wrist? Hose? Console? Clip-on retractor?

Are you going to be diving nitrox for increased bottom time some day?

Auto-activation or not?

Audible alarms?

Back light?

Downloadable to your PC?

Does it calculate time-to-fly based on gas load, or always have a set countdown?

Thermometer?

Do you plan any altitude diving?

What ascent rate do you plan to adhere to?

What kind of battery does it use and how (and how often) is it replaced?

Is the interface "intuitive" or will you need to read the manual before every dive?

How does the computer handle violations of its algorithm?

What's the warranty?

Can it be purchased and serviced locally?

I've probably only scratched the surface on dive computer features. Find out what features are available and what each feature will do for you. Next decide which features you want/need for what price. Then ask for recommendations on computers with those features at that price. I think you'll be a lot happier with your purchase that way.

HTH,

Bill

 

[Mario S Caner]

LoCz,
Dive computer knowledge is one of my stong points, do you want comparisson's on different model's features, and benefits or trainging from scratch hehe... bring it on!

Mario

 

[LoCz]

Thx billip but yeh what you described above are what i thought where basic computer functions anyway. I suppose i will spend around 250 pounds around 370 US dollars. Hmm nd no i cant afford air intergrated remote control wrist mountings (infact even if i could i wouldnt buy one for obvious reasons). Hee hee thats why i asked you uys which computer ;( air mounted or not i dunno if it is worth getting an air mounted computer if all im going to be using is air. However im sure ill be using Nitrox in no time

 

[BillP]

"Thx billip but yeh what you described above are what i thought where basic computer functions anyway."

Yeah, I kinda had the feeling that you thought that all computers were pretty much alike. That's why I listed those features. They're not.

For example, the Scubapro/Uwatec Aladin Pro Ultra that you mentioned is a fine well-featured computer. Very nice. But it lists for ~£340 in the US ($500) not the £250 that you want to spend. I suppose they might be cheaper where you are, but if you're looking at buying through a discounter, be aware that your computer might not come with a manufacturer's warranty. The warranty on the Aladin is 1 year. Many companies guarantee their computers for two years. I had a computer crap out at 16 months once.

It has a relatively "conservative" algorithm compared to some computers. That means less bottom time on your dives. That's fine for an old guy like me, but some people complain when their buddy's computer lets them dive longer than theirs does.

It is not air integrated. I don't care for air integration myself, but some people love it.

You can mount in in a console, put it on your wrist, or clip it to your BC. Personally I prefer a hose mount, and that's not available with this computer.

It is a nitrox computer. Important since you plan to dive nitrox some day- unless you're diving nitrox on air tables purely for the safety factor. Then you could get by with a less expensive air computer. (Though I don't recommend it.)

It has auto-activation. That's great when you forget to turn it on before you jump in the water and start diving. (Or when you turn it on to check it before the dive, the dive briefing goes longer than you anticipated, and you don't notice that it's auto-shut off before you dive.) But those touch contacts really suck when they're coated with sea-crud and don't work. I had to take a file to mine on my last trip to Coz to get them working again- and I keep them clean.

It's an Aladin, so I'll bet it has audible alarms. Bet there are multiple user-selectable audible alarms too. I was on a liveaboard once with a fellow with an Aladin. He had selected it to beep if he ascended too fast. It beeped if he descended to slow. It beeped if he held his breath. It beeped if he was using too much air. It beeped if 1/4, 1/2, 2/3, 3/4, or 14/16 of his air supply was gone. It beeped if he turned left more often than he turned right. It beeped so &$%# often that if you were within 50' of the guy you heard constant beeping. If he had taken his eyes off of it for just a moment on deck, his computer would have been overboard in a heartbeat. My computer has audible alarms too. It doesn't beep nearly as loud as the Aladin. If it's ever beeped, I haven't heard it. Audible alarms are nice, but they have limited utility.

It has a light. My wife's computer has a light. She doesn't do night dives, dive in overheads, or dive in bad vis so she's never used it. It was a waste of money.

It will interface with your PC. I think that's a cool feature, but unnecessary. You can get less expensive computer that does not interface. It will log 19 dives in its memory. Maybe not enough for a long trip.

It calculates time-to-fly. Much better than the simple countdown that some computers have.

If you violate its decompression algorithm it locks-out, shuts down, turns off, and blinks "error" at you for a day or two. (Dunno how long.) Some computers continue to give decompression info for additional dives. (I think this is bad.) Some computers will continue to display depth and dive time on subsequent dives if you choose to continue diving.

It does not display temperature. I think a thermometer is a pretty neat feature myself.

It auto-sets the altitude up to 13,300 ft (~4050m), but I personally don't altitude dive and don't need that feature. Maybe you do.

The Aladins let you ascend at 67 ft per minute (20 mpm). I try to limit my ascents to about 30 fpm even at depth. My computer alarms with ascents faster than 33 fpm.

The battery has to be replaced at the factory- you can't do it yourself. Think time and ££££'s.

Dunno about the interface- haven't dived with it. It looks like an all-alpha numeric display. Some people find colors (green-yellow-red) to indicate deco status helpful- especially when narced at depth.

There is not one standard set of "basic computer fuctions". Available dive computers are very different. Read up on the various features that are available, decide which features are right for you, and then go shopping.

Just more of my 2¢,

Bill

 

[LoCz]

Well then, i suppose i would prefer a computer where you can access the dive info straight after the dive so you can use an old fashioned log book to right it all down. Yeh Bill the Aladin Pro Ultra i can get for around 205 pounds with full waranty. But i dont like the idea of having to send it off to the factory just to get a battery changed?
I mean cmon what sort of company sees ppl as being too "thick" tobe able to change a battery, silly silly.

So at the moment i have a few in mind:

Aladin Pro Ultra (cant change battery yourself ;( )
Suunto Spider
Suunto Cobra

These are the big 3 that iv seen in reviews so far.

 

[BillP]

Hi LoCz:

You can get a 40% discount off of the retail price on Uwatec gear and still get a warranty!? I was under the impression that scuba gear was more expensive in the UK. I have friends from London who always shop when they come to Florida because gear is so expensive at home. Be sure and post your source so maybe more UK divers can get in on the deals.

Pretty much any computer will allow you to look up the info on the last dive for your log. But if you're going to pay extra for a PC downloadable dive computer, buy the interface and software to hook it to your PC (they're often sold separately), and then download your dives, you won't really want to go on a trip where you do 25-30 dives and only be able to download 19 of them. If you only take short trips, do few dives, or bring a laptop 19 is fine, but if you're like me you'd want more memory capacity in a PC downloadable computer. What are your plans?

As far as your other choices are concerned, the Sunnto Spyder is a fine wristwatch style computer. It is not a nitrox computer. Didn't you say you would be diving nitrox? In the US it retails for about £500 ($750). Can you get 50% discounts on Suunto gear to meet your £250 budget? If so, be sure and post that source too. The Spyder's batteries are also recommended to be replaced at the factory.

The Suunto Cobra retails for ~£475 ($700) in the US. Again, this is way over your budget unless you have a terrific source with that 50% discount. It is a nitrox computer. It is also air-integrated and on the end of a hose. You could not mount it on your wrist. I'm not sure about changing its battery.

I hate to sound like a broken record here LoCz, but the three computers you've listed are like comparing apples, oranges, and pomegranates. They have such different features and styles they really aren't even remotely comparable. I'll tell you one more time that I think you really, really, REALLY need to do more reseach and decide what features you want before you start looking at particular models.

I wish you the best of luck in your search,

Bill

 

[LoCz]

Thx Bill, well like i said im a new diver. I havnt got a clue thus yet as to whcich features im going to need. Yes im sure once i have my Nitrox certificate ill dive with nitrox, why not if it provides increased bottom time? then again who knows ..i may read that it poses more risks than air.

Also im afraid buying locally with a local dive shop wont apply to me since ill be buying my gear in England and then a year later ill be moving away from England for good hopefully. So paying slightly more at a local store for the sake of local gear servicing isnt really an option.


The prices i can get are cheap...basically because unlike 90% of people i do a hell of a lot of research getting quotes from diffrent shops through-out the UK. There are plenty of great UK dealers out there with great prices on items you just have to know where to look. The best prices i have found so far are on UK webpages, for example the suunto cobra at 350 pounds stirling and heres another...the scubapro X-wing BC for 210 pounds. I know some dealers that have been banned by scubapro,for example, for selling there gear to cheaply. And from all the prices i got a waranty was included yes. 40% discount on Uwatec?
yes the aladin Pro is plastered allover the net at 245 pounds. I was also under the impression that Florida was cheaper than the UK for almost everything. How wrong i was when finally got there.

 

[BillP]

"Thx Bill, well like i said im a new diver. I havnt got a clue thus yet as to whcich features im going to need."

Then may I make some suggestions?

Check out Kevin Grover's Internet Dive Computer Review on the Diverlink site at http://diverlink.com/idcr/

Go to the Divernet site at http://www.divernet.com/gear/comps995.htm and look through their reviews.

Maybe start some new threads on this board- such as, "What features do you like/look for in a dive computer?", "Air-integration or not? Why?", "Opinions on console vs. wrist vs. hose vs. BC mounting for computers?", "Will I need a computer that switches between metric and imperial units?" or any number of other questions before you ask "Which computer should I buy?"

Think of buying a dive computer like buying a car. Which car is "best"? You might tell me the Rolls-Royce Corniche is the best car made. But wait a minute, I need one to haul manure on a farm, and my budget is $2000. Might you give me a different answer as to what is "best" with that info? If you ask me, "What is the best dive computer" I will answer with what is the best dive computer for me. That might not help you at all.

When I picked out a dive computer, I researched it carefully and picked what was best for me. My wife then went out and bought two of them so we'd be the same. Very romantic, but very impractical. She does not dive nitrox (and never will), she doesn't need the backlight, she doesn't download her dives to a PC, etc. What was perfect for me was totally wrong for her. Her computer serves her well, but we could have bought her a much less expensive computer and she would have gotten just as much utility out of it.

When you've read through the above links and find out what's available out there, and ask around here about what features people like and why, you'll have a much better clue as to what features you'll want and need. Then you can pick the computer that's right for you.

Bill

 

[BillP]

About Bristol Scuba- I looked at their web page. I don't see where they mentioned any of the prices that you quoted. But I did see where they said that Scubapro seems to disagree with them about what kind of warranty coverage the equipment they sell has. Specifically:

"YOU MAY KNOW THAT WE HAVE BEEN HAVING SOME DISAGREEMENTS WITH SCUBAPRO OVER SUPPLYING THEIR PRODUCT RANGE (INCLUDING UWATEC ), AND IN PARTICULAR THEIR CLAIMS ABOUT WARRANTIES. FOR THE TRUTH - TRY LOOKING AT THE LATEST ADVERTISING STANDARDS AUTHORITY JUDGEMENT AGIANST THEM - JULY 12, 2000. (ITS FREE AND ON THE NET)."

Bristol Scuba did not say where that information was available on the net. I don't know anything about Bristol Scuba, but I do know that discounters will often say that the equipment they sell has a full manufacturers warranty when the manufacturer (who you'll look to to actually give you the warranty coverage) might disagree. Be careful.

Bill