Kind of getting lost in all the info for my first purchase...

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Ready4Launch

Contributor
Messages
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Location
United States
# of dives
200 - 499
Went to the LDS. Talked about some BC's. Went away from there believing that BP/W is what I want. Still think it's what I want. But, now ... it's a bit of information overload reading through everything here.

So, questions I've got now...

1) Do you have to use a crotch strap for a BP/W system??? Seriously? If so, then I may really rethink the BP/W setup.

2) As a gear-junky with all the other things I do, I kinda want to know the "who's who" and how they rank for BC's. I see a lot of talk for Dive Rite. Not so much for Hollis, but it looked like the Hollis SMS 100 was the top of the line BC at the LDS. Aqualung? Would appreciate someone kind of ranking them out and a quick blurb why.

3) I've done a lot of reading. It's into the wee-hours of the morning. BP/W setup ... are they specific for a single tank setup which would mean you can't use a BP/W system for a two-tank when you go with one tank? STA fixes that? Tacos? How does mexican food come into play for scuba gear? Yeah, I'm sure I know what it means, but I don't know why a wing that fills up and squeezes around a tank would be a bad thing...?

4) Weights & trim -- with the jacket, the instructor had me loaded with 22lbs and said I might be able to get away with using only 20. I know the BP/W is less bulky and less to sink, and add to it that I may want an Al backplate ... how do I get my weight figured out once I make a BP/W decision? I just saw in another thread that weighting for BP/W wasn't ditch-able! Huh???

5) Based on my info that's to follow, can someone maybe make some suggestions? Money is not really a problem unless we're talking about a BC that's going over say $1,100. I want something that will allow me to "grow into it" as I anticipate doing more advanced diving in the future. I travel a lot for work, and I do anticipate diving when the oppty presents itself on occassion, so I was thinking an aluminum backplate, but I don't really know.

Anywhere from 190-200lbs. 6'-1" Probably 90% of my diving will be the Channel Islands here in California in a 7mm wetsuit despite work travel.
 
Went to the LDS. Talked about some BC's. Went away from there believing that BP/W is what I want. Still think it's what I want. But, now ... it's a bit of information overload reading through everything here.

So, questions I've got now...

1) Do you have to use a crotch strap for a BP/W system??? Seriously? If so, then I may really rethink the BP/W setup.

2) As a gear-junky with all the other things I do, I kinda want to know the "who's who" and how they rank for BC's. I see a lot of talk for Dive Rite. Not so much for Hollis, but it looked like the Hollis SMS 100 was the top of the line BC at the LDS. Aqualung? Would appreciate someone kind of ranking them out and a quick blurb why.

3) I've done a lot of reading. It's into the wee-hours of the morning. BP/W setup ... are they specific for a single tank setup which would mean you can't use a BP/W system for a two-tank when you go with one tank? STA fixes that? Tacos? How does mexican food come into play for scuba gear? Yeah, I'm sure I know what it means, but I don't know why a wing that fills up and squeezes around a tank would be a bad thing...?

4) Weights & trim -- with the jacket, the instructor had me loaded with 22lbs and said I might be able to get away with using only 20. I know the BP/W is less bulky and less to sink, and add to it that I may want an Al backplate ... how do I get my weight figured out once I make a BP/W decision? I just saw in another thread that weighting for BP/W wasn't ditch-able! Huh???

5) Based on my info that's to follow, can someone maybe make some suggestions? Money is not really a problem unless we're talking about a BC that's going over say $1,100. I want something that will allow me to "grow into it" as I anticipate doing more advanced diving in the future. I travel a lot for work, and I do anticipate diving when the oppty presents itself on occassion, so I was thinking an aluminum backplate, but I don't really know.

Anywhere from 190-200lbs. 6'-1" Probably 90% of my diving will be the Channel Islands here in California in a 7mm wetsuit despite work travel.

1. The crotchstrap is one of the things that really makes the system work. It keeps all in place. You only notice it for the first couple of dives.

2. There are several manufactuers of BPW solutions. What you need to look at is what you want to use it for. DiveRite, Hollis, Halcyon, Scubapro, Oxycheck and others are all well know manufacturers. However, they do have all their little quirks. Halcyon is known for nearly bombproof quality but also higher price for example. Hog is known to be in the lower end of the price spectrum. (I don't know anything about their quality as I dive an H-rig.)

3. A plate is normally a plate. They can be used with both single tanks and double tanks. Tacos happen when you have a doubles wing (or too large wing) on a single tank. For some wings, you ned an STA, others have it "built in". If the wing tacoes, and you are horizontal, basically, the bit where your dumpvalve is will be "empty" while all the gas in the wing is abit "higher" up in the taco. Ie, it can be close to impossible to dump from the wing.

4. Not all people use ditchable weights. I dive doubles in Norway. To trim out my rig, I need 4kg in a tailweight in the summer. This is bolted to my rig. Considering this, I always use a drysuit to have redundant buoyancy. In winter, i add 2 kg, which I put on my left waiststrap. This one is ditchable, with a little effort.
Just do a regular weight check. On your ascent, stop at 3m, purge your tank to 30bar and take off/put on untill you feel perfect. (Should be done with all new configs)

5. All BPWs will allow you to grow. You might need to get two wings, one for single and one for doubles, but you still use the same plate. Personally, I would prolly get one plate for home, and one for vacation... but then again, I dive steel doubles and drysuit at home, and boardshorts on vacation...
 
1. Crotch strap is not always necessary. I've personally never used one on my BPW, but I only dive single tank recreationally and use a SS plate and 30#wing.
2. I currently use an Oxycheq wing, but also own a Hollis and an Apeks. The differences are so minor that it doesn't really matter for recreational diving.
3. BPWs are versatile for single or doubles. That's what makes them great. Buy the right size wing and no taco.
4. I use velcro closure pockets that slide on the waist strap of my BPW. Easy to open and ditch if needed.
5. If I had to do it all over again...I'd still use a BPW, but the first thing I'd do is pick up the phone and call Tobin at Deep Sea Supply and tell him everything that you just told Scubaboard. He will have you set up in a wonderful, reasonably priced, system in no time flat.
 
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1) Do you have to use a crotch strap for a BP/W system??? Seriously? If so, then I may really rethink the BP/W setup. For proper fitment and function of the rig a crotch strap is necessity.

2) As a gear-junky with all the other things I do, I kinda want to know the "who's who" and how they rank for BC's. I see a lot of talk for Dive Rite. Not so much for Hollis, but it looked like the Hollis SMS 100 was the top of the line BC at the LDS. Aqualung? Would appreciate someone kind of ranking them out and a quick blurb why. As far as BP/W goes, with minor differences aside a plate is a plate and a harness is simple 2" webbing with some D rings and sliders. Of course some plate/wing combos can be brand/fitment specific but as time goes on this is becoming less and less the case. Take a look at each wing on it's own merit, what you may dismiss as a non "in" brand right now may end up fitting the bill for your wants and needs.

3) I've done a lot of reading. It's into the wee-hours of the morning. BP/W setup ... are they specific for a single tank setup which would mean you can't use a BP/W system for a two-tank when you go with one tank? STA fixes that? Tacos? How does mexican food come into play for scuba gear? Yeah, I'm sure I know what it means, but I don't know why a wing that fills up and squeezes around a tank would be a bad thing...? The beauty of a BP/W system is it's modular characteristics. You can switch from singles to doubles, warm water to cold etc rather easily with a swap out of the plate or wing. Of course over time most divers end up with more than 1 set up. Some plates require an STA for single tank diving while others possess the ability to weave cam bands directly into the plate. If you're regularly switching from singles to doubles then an STA is almost necessary for ease of change ups. Tacoing can be prevented by using the right size and shape of wing for the tank you're using. single tank--->single tank wing, double tanks--->double tank wing. Think right tool for the job here.

4) Weights & trim -- with the jacket, the instructor had me loaded with 22lbs and said I might be able to get away with using only 20. I know the BP/W is less bulky and less to sink, and add to it that I may want an Al backplate ... how do I get my weight figured out once I make a BP/W decision? I just saw in another thread that weighting for BP/W wasn't ditch-able! Huh??? Most will take 4-6 or even 8lbs in some cases from their ballast needs by switching to a BP/W....simple design and no padding is the reason for this. Even more if you go to an SS plate, which given your ballast requirements may be a better option over the AL plate to take a little more weight off of your weight belt. Most experienced divers wear a weight belt with even just a few pounds of lead with a BP/W.....ditchable weight is always good.

5) Based on my info that's to follow, can someone maybe make some suggestions? Money is not really a problem unless we're talking about a BC that's going over say $1,100. I want something that will allow me to "grow into it" as I anticipate doing more advanced diving in the future. I travel a lot for work, and I do anticipate diving when the oppty presents itself on occassion, so I was thinking an aluminum backplate, but I don't really know. An Al BP would be a good option for travel but you should also get an SS backplate for your local stuff....especially diving in a 7 mil. We offer this package for 379.00 which at that price you can easily afford a second BP and harness for travel and still be in the 500-500 dollar range.
 
Went to the LDS. Talked about some BC's. Went away from there believing that BP/W is what I want. Still think it's what I want. But, now ... it's a bit of information overload reading through everything here.

So, questions I've got now...

1) Do you have to use a crotch strap for a BP/W system??? Seriously? If so, then I may really rethink the BP/W setup.

2) As a gear-junky with all the other things I do, I kinda want to know the "who's who" and how they rank for BC's. I see a lot of talk for Dive Rite. Not so much for Hollis, but it looked like the Hollis SMS 100 was the top of the line BC at the LDS. Aqualung? Would appreciate someone kind of ranking them out and a quick blurb why.

3) I've done a lot of reading. It's into the wee-hours of the morning. BP/W setup ... are they specific for a single tank setup which would mean you can't use a BP/W system for a two-tank when you go with one tank? STA fixes that? Tacos? How does mexican food come into play for scuba gear? Yeah, I'm sure I know what it means, but I don't know why a wing that fills up and squeezes around a tank would be a bad thing...?

4) Weights & trim -- with the jacket, the instructor had me loaded with 22lbs and said I might be able to get away with using only 20. I know the BP/W is less bulky and less to sink, and add to it that I may want an Al backplate ... how do I get my weight figured out once I make a BP/W decision? I just saw in another thread that weighting for BP/W wasn't ditch-able! Huh???

5) Based on my info that's to follow, can someone maybe make some suggestions? Money is not really a problem unless we're talking about a BC that's going over say $1,100. I want something that will allow me to "grow into it" as I anticipate doing more advanced diving in the future. I travel a lot for work, and I do anticipate diving when the oppty presents itself on occassion, so I was thinking an aluminum backplate, but I don't really know.

Anywhere from 190-200lbs. 6'-1" Probably 90% of my diving will be the Channel Islands here in California in a 7mm wetsuit despite work travel.

To add on to the great replies....

Yup, a crotch strap. Never 'noticed' it while underwater in my dry suit, wetsuit or swim suit as exposure protection. Helps keep everything in place (unlike jacket BC)

SMS100. That's a sidemount system, not a BP/W system. Completely different.

These days, a plate is a plate. Aluminum or Stainless Steel is your biggest hurdle (I have both. SS for local diving, AL for warm water diving - saves a few lbs for camera gear). There are travel centric plates out there, plastic in nature, and very minimal. Generally single tank only. They all have a basic shape, some are 'curved' more than others, some have better finished edges, some have the bottom corners bent ever so slightly back out of your hips than others ....

Wings are slightly more confusing. You have a few shapes (doughnut, horseshoe), styles (singles, doubles), and for single wings, some have a 'built in Single Tank Adapter', ie, it has slots for 2 cam bands, and some ribbing to keep a single tank from sliding around. If it doesn't have this, then you will need a STA for single tanks (and sometimes, depending on the plate/wing combo, the slots might not line up vertically on your back). I do prefer a STA over the 'built in' I find it easier to change tanks out with very minimal parts slipping about. Doubles you do have to think a little about the tank diameter, as a 7.25" tank with a manifold is a lot narrower than a 8" tank with manifold.

The same plate can be used for singles, doubles, stages, deco bottles, etc.

'taco' refers to using a wing designed for a double setup with a single tank (or overtly large wing on a smaller tank). It looks like the profile of a taco, and is really hard to dump air out of as the rear dump (the one you will use 99.9999% of the time) can't dump that air effectively.

Weights. A SS backplate is generally 6lbs negative (AL less so), along with less floaty material of a jacket drops a lot of that 22lbs off of your required weight (Jackets are usually buoyant). You can add weight in several ways, some are ditch able (such as weight pockets or a weight belt), and others aren't ditchable (V or P weights, bolted weights, tank weights, etc). A weight harness, weight belt or attaching it to the webbing or plate. In warm water with minimal exposure protection, you may not need any other weight with a SS plate (I take 2lbs with my SS and a 3mm full at a husky 210lbs)

On my setup, single or double, there isn't any ditchable weight. My singles rig is easily swum up, my double 16L isn't as easy, but with extra redundancy (dry suit) it is manageable with full tanks.

As for brands, Halcyon is at the top of my list (NOT because I'm a GUE diver). Their stuff is pretty much indestructible (as long as you actually take care of gear), well thought out and designed. Having said that, I only own a few pieces, mostly because they popped up used when I was looking for certain items (I usually don't buy by brand, but by spec, and what my piggy bank allows). AL bp, doubles wing, inflators, weight pockets.

I have HOG as well. SS bp, single wing, regs. Their other end of the $$ spectrum. Works great.

Plan to buy for your most common diving, and then expand on that.


BRad
 
These days, a plate is a plate.

Plates differ in

1) Overall size, i.e. length

2) Overall shape, small radius corners, large radius corners etc.

3) Materials, Stainless, Aluminum, or Plastic

4) Finish

5) Bend angle

6) Center channel depth

7) Choice of tank mounting locations, some plates offer a single pair of holes at 11 inch centers, some offer pairs of holes, some holes and a slot etc.


Tobin
 
I tried a crouch strap when I first converted to a BP/W over 15 years ago. I found I did not need it. (I guess I have just enough pooch to hold my rig down.) It is not that it was uncomfortable, just an unnecessary step in getting ready to dive.

And don't fret about converting from singles to doubles. They are like potato chips - you don't have to have just one. Wife and I have three each and we only dive single tanks. At a minimum, you should plan on a cold water rig with a heavy plate and a tropical water rig with a light plate for travel.
 
You know, we had one of our recent OW students in the pool in a backplate last night. She had looked at the setup and announced that it wouldn't be comfortable, and when I adjusted it for her, she was sure the crotch strap was too tight and she wasn't, just wasn't going to like this.

At the end of the night, she and her husband are going to order them, so what you THINK you are going to think about something may not be how you end up, at all.

I could write a long post going over your specific points, but instead, I'll just reiterate one point from above. Go out to Pasadena and talk to Tobin. Even if you don't buy a DSS rig, you'll learn more than you could possibly learn from what we can write for you. It will all make better sense when you can see it in front of you.
 
1) Do you have to use a crotch strap for a BP/W system??? Seriously? If so, then I may really rethink the BP/W setup. For proper fitment and function of the rig a crotch strap is necessity.

Can you explain why? I mean, I don't see them in place on a jacket style. The LDS says they function just the same underwater. This might be a deal breaker.

Also -- and this goes to the whole group -- I'm wondering about manual inflation; is BP/W easier to manually inflate with its design or harder than a jacket?

---------- Post added March 4th, 2015 at 10:59 AM ----------

You know, we had one of our recent OW students in the pool in a backplate last night. She had looked at the setup and announced that it wouldn't be comfortable, and when I adjusted it for her, she was sure the crotch strap was too tight and she wasn't, just wasn't going to like this.

At the end of the night, she and her husband are going to order them, so what you THINK you are going to think about something may not be how you end up, at all.

I could write a long post going over your specific points, but instead, I'll just reiterate one point from above. Go out to Pasadena and talk to Tobin. Even if you don't buy a DSS rig, you'll learn more than you could possibly learn from what we can write for you. It will all make better sense when you can see it in front of you.

Problem is ... how do I try one without buying one? Everyone only seems to rent the jacket BC's. LDS doesn't rent a BP/W. It's been explained to me that if you go with the jacket style and later decide to switch to a BP/W, then it's more difficult to adjust, but opposite if starting with the BP/W.

---------- Post added March 4th, 2015 at 11:02 AM ----------

SMS100. That's a sidemount system, not a BP/W system. Completely different.

Thanks to everyone for the replies so far.

I thought with a BP/W, if using two bottles, then they are sidemounted. I obviously don't know the difference between the two. Can I use a single tank with a sidemount system for getting started, and then I'm sort of set for when I get to more advanced diving?
 
Can you explain why? I mean, I don't see them in place on a jacket style. The LDS says they function just the same underwater. This might be a deal breaker.

Go to any popular dive site. Observe the newbies with their tank sitting more or less on top of their head. How did this happen? Easy, the diver wanted to get their mouth out of the water so they leaned on the inflator. Lacking a crotch strap the BC and tank rose out of the water, but the diver didn't......

We need a coin a new for crotch strap phobia, it just is not a problem, and they do provide significant advantages.

Also -- and this goes to the whole group -- I'm wondering about manual inflation; is BP/W easier to manually inflate with its design or harder than a jacket?

No difference, you are just blowing air into an inflatable bag.


---------- Post added March 4th, 2015 at 10:59 AM ----------



Problem is ... how do I try one without buying one? Everyone only seems to rent the jacket BC's. LDS doesn't rent a BP/W. It's been explained to me that if you go with the jacket style and later decide to switch to a BP/W, then it's more difficult to adjust, but opposite if starting with the BP/W.

Here's the reality, your BP&W isn't going to be fully optimally adjusted for 2-4 (or more) dives. Everybody tinkers with their harness for the first few dives. If you expect to "test drive" a BP&W briefly and decide you won't be realizing the full benefit of a BP&W.

Keep in mind that vanishingly few divers switch to a BP&W, and then switch back to a Jacket. That alone should tell you something.......

Tobin
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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