How to assemble DSS backplate and bolt-on weights?

[stuartv]

I got some of the DSS bolt-on weights (used) for my DSS backplate. But, they did not come with any hardware for mounting them or any instructions. Hopefully, someone here can help me with some info. I called DSS and spoke with Tobin to try and purchase the necessary hardware to attach the plates. He seemed annoyed with me for calling him at all, since I didn't buy the weights from him, and told me to just go somewhere local and buy 1/4-20 x 3/8 SS screws. IIRC, he did not specify button head or flat socket head and I definitely didn't think to ask about that.

- Am I supposed to be using button head screws, or should I be using a flat socket head, like this:



- Am I supposed to put a screw through the top hole on each weight plate? There are two screw holes down around the waist belt area and the screws I got (1/4-20x1/2 button head, 'cause I couldn't find anything shorter) seem to work fine, there. They're longer than spec, but they do not stick out the far side at all, even with no washers used. But, both those holes are near the bottom, so don't give ideal (in my mind) retention on their own. There is a third threaded hole near the top of each weight plate, but it lines up with one of the big side holes on the BP. The head of the screws I got fits inside the hole in the BP, so, clearly, the screw by itself will not work. I used a 1/4" lock washer on top of a 5/16" flat washer and that seems to make a solid connection. Assuming I am supposed to put a screw through that top hole on each side, what is the official way to do it?

And if I'm supposed to use a flat socket head screw, how do I make that work with the big hole in the BP for that top screw?

- Am I supposed to use flat washers or lock washers anywhere?

- Are the weights supposed to go on the diver side or the tank/wing side of the plate?

If they go on the diver side, that means I have to disassemble the whole waist belt assembly and take it out of the BP in order to mount the bolt-on weights. That seems like more work than I would expect to have to do to install/remove these weight plates. But, maybe it's normal and expected that the weights will be installed and generally just left on, so no constant remove/replace, meaning a little extra work is no big deal.

But, if they go on the tank side, that means the bolt heads that hold them on are potentially going to dig into/damage my wetsuit.

If I'm supposed to use flat socket head screws, then I guess they would be flush with the plate and not an issue with damaging my suit. And maybe then I really would need 3/8" long screws for them to not stick out the far side.

Thanks for any help. I'm definitely look forward to getting these things on and not having to carry that extra 8# of lead on my cam bands or on a waist belt.

 

[enduser]

Stuart I love the questions and your inquisitiveness has lead to some great discussions on Scubaboard. I do like that you don't take answers at face value and challenge responders sometimes. But keep in mind that you are coming to SB to ask questions of divers more experienced than you (than both of us). So try not to bite the hand that feeds you. Why start a thread that Tobin could easily answer by insulting Tobin?

I get it. He isn't relatable. Some would even say grouchy. And a lot like other "experts" doesn't have time to waste time. But he provides you/us volunteraly with information free of charge and is ALWAYS quick to respond even a lot of times just to share experience or even to tell someone not to use his products.

This is not about Tobin it is about every expert. The way I see it the more folks ask questions then tell the experts to bugger off. The less likely actual experts are to respond.

As to your question. See this post it has more info on how to install and which screws to use.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/deep-sea-supply/492464-weight-plate-mounting-backplate.html

The DSS site mentions Low profile SS button head allen machine screws.

No washers or lock washers.

The plates go on the wing side of the plate. And our cut so you don't have to unthread your harness. Just get screws that thread but don't stick out.

Here is a pic of them installed for screw placement.

http://rs95.pbsrc.com/albums/l145/mr_floater/DSS BP mods/weightplates_mod2.jpg~320x480

 

[Rand]

Just to add to enduser's post, you do need two washers, one for each plate. They go over the large hole on each side and allow the screw to hold. Just get flat washers. Lock washers are not needed anywhere. Everything is machined to fit perfectly and the plates sit solidly, so there is no movement to loosen the screws on you. I've never had any that I needed to tighten between dives.

If you are buying a set of hardware, you might as well get a spare set. There's not much you can do if you loose a screw or two, and no one wants to have to put that weight back on their belt.

If it helps, I can take photos of the screws and washers for you later. I'm not where my dive gear is at the moment.

 

[enduser]

Sorry yes thanks for the corrections Rand. Got focused on the bottom screws and forgot the larger hole.

 

[TSandM]

I love Tobin, because he will willingly spend a lot of his own time working with a customer to make sure they get what they need and will enjoy (rather than, sometimes, what they want!).

But I can't blame somebody for getting a bit testy when a customer buys used gear and then wants the manufacturer's time to explain to them how to use it, especially when at least some of the information is available on their website.

I also find that criticizing somebody's gear on line is not a good way to incline them to spend a lot of time helping somebody out.

 

[stuartv]

As to your question. See this post it has more info on how to install and which screws to use.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/deep-sea-supply/492464-weight-plate-mounting-backplate.html

The DSS site mentions Low profile SS button head allen machine screws.

No washers or lock washers.

The plates go on the wing side of the plate. And our cut so you don't have to unthread your harness. Just get screws that thread but don't stick out.

Here is a pic of them installed for screw placement.

http://rs95.pbsrc.com/albums/l145/mr_floater/DSS BP mods/weightplates_mod2.jpg~320x480

enduser and Rand, thank you for the info.

enduser, that picture you linked to appears to show button head screws, which is good info.

For maximum clarity (to me), your picture is not of the final assembly, right? It has the weight resting in place on the wrong side of the BP, just to show how it fits and where the screws go, correct?

And your weights have a number of modifications you made to them? They look quite a bit different than mine.

You don't have any issue with that button head screw in the top/larger hole digging into your wetsuit? It hasn't left any marks at all, even from moving around with your rig on before you get in the water?

Also, in the SB thread you linked, from what it says, I gather that the screws for the top/big hole are normally 1/2", with a washer, and the 2 screws for the bottom holes are 3/8". Correct?

Interestingly (to me), the holes in the pictures in that SB thread appear to be chamfered. I didn't notice the holes on mine being chamfered. I'll have to double check and make sure I didn't need to just flip them over. If they are chamfered on one side, is there a particular orientation for that? Meaning, should the chamfered side face the diver or away from the diver or does it matter? It seems like, in this case, being chamfered would only server to make it easier to get the screw into the hole when you're assembling it.

But I can't blame somebody for getting a bit testy when a customer buys used gear and then wants the manufacturer's time to explain to them how to use it, especially when at least some of the information is available on their website.

Why would you assume that I called and asked how to use anything?

As I said before, I called and asked to PURCHASE the hardware I needed to be able to use the weight plates. I did not ask how to use anything. I was told to buy my own locally and that I needed 1/4-20 x 3/8 screws. I was not told that I also needed 1/4-20 x 1/2 screws and flat washers for the top holes. At that point, I asked no further questions as I already felt like my call to make a PURCHASE was unwelcome.

I did look on their website before calling and did not find any info on what the required mounting hardware is - only that it comes with the plates. I just looked again and still don't see it. I looked in the Details of the weights themselves and in the FAQ/Video section. And I don't see a "Weight Plate Mounting Hardware Kit" anywhere to look at.

I only stated the facts about my previous call to DSS in anticipation of someone responding to my OP by saying "why don't you just call DSS and ask Tobin?" Answer: Been there. Done that. Didn't get all the info I needed. Didn't feel welcome to call back. Apparently, I'm such an a-hole that I have figured out how to piss someone off just by calling, explaining I bought some used gear, and asking to buy only the required mounting hardware.

I really like my DSS gear. I have been very complimentary of it here on SB, recommending people to check it out in a number of "what BC should I buy" threads. Even taking the time to detail out many of the reasons I think the DSS gear stands out from the crowd - and on more than one occasion. I have only picked one nit at all with any of it and that's my new preference to have a donut, instead of a horseshoe, wing, and I made it very clear that I think the difference is very minor. I'm not getting rid of the wing I have in order to replace it with a donut.

I have read other people's comments regarding Tobin, ranging from "grouchy" to "not my favorite person", but you you'll notice I haven't said anything negative about him. I have only related the specific facts of my own direct experiences, with no name-calling, explicit or implied. I have the highest respect for his gear, his engineering, and his willingness to contribute generously of his time and knowledge here in these forums. But, SB Favorite Child status or no, I'm not going to sugar coat the facts about my interaction with any vendor. I'm also not going out of my way to talk about it. I'm not starting threads about my phone calls to DSS. However, in this thread, I felt like it was relevant information to head off the inevitable and obvious suggestions. Yes, thanks, I already called.

 

[enduser]

I don't have a set have only seen them on a buddy. Trying to buy a set cheap. Heck I even tried to buy yours. Lol.

The first link sounded like he was also installing a glide adapter which would change the screws. The second image yes was for screw placement. That image is actually from a discussion on modding the plates. Sounds like Rand can snag some pics of the hardware required.

As for the rest of the thread. I started the don't vendor bash and then ask a question. I selfishly I suppose just want to make sure that when I have a question that experts will still be inclined to answer it.

Scubaboard is an interesting thing in that we have a mix of experienced divers and vendors in basically real time. I love the idea of... if I have a question about Zeagle gear I can post and Jeff Zeagle himself or another direct rep will most likely respond. And I am seeing more and more that the system has power. If I have a problem with a piece of gear. It easy for them to ignore one person, but if lots of us have the same issue it quickly not so easy.

I come from the tech and print world and nothing even close to that would ever happen with big tech or print companies. Yes you can tweet or post on FB but it is rare that they spend any real time on a detailed answer.

I apologize for starting the thread off on the wrong path. Back to the original post and question. Thanks again for having the question as I said I'm in the market for a set if anyone wants to sell them. Lol.

 

[stuartv]

I don't have a set have only seen them on a buddy. Trying to buy a set cheap. Heck I even tried to buy yours. Lol.

Oh, yeah. Duh!

To sum up what I've gleaned from the posts and pictures:

DSS Bolt-on Back Plate Weight Installation

Items required

4 x screws (1/4-20 x 3/8", stainless steel, button head)
2 x screws (1/4-20 x 1/2", stainless steel, button head)
2 x 1/4" flat washers
Hand tool for tightening screws

Instructions

Put the weights on the back (i.e. wing) side of the back plate.

Attach using 2 of the shorter screws (for each weight), from the diver's side of the plate, through the holes adjacent to the waist belt glide, and into the weights. Do not use washers with these screws. Tighten to just snug.

Attach using 1 of the longer screws (for each weight) through the large hole in the back plate that aligns (after the other 2 screws are installed) with the screw hole in the weight. Put one washer on the screw and insert through the back plate, from the diver's side of the plate, and thread into the weight.

Tighten all screws.

Note: 1/2" screws, instead of 3/8" worked fine for me, but YMMV.

Personally, one of my good friends is Blue (medium strength) Loc-Tite, so I used that on my screws, even though it may not be necessary. Blue Loc-Tite makes me happy.

 

[ams511]

But I can't blame somebody for getting a bit testy when a customer buys used gear and then wants the manufacturer's time to explain to them how to use it, especially when at least some of the information is available on their website.

I purchased a used BP/W setup from eBay with a DRIS wing. I really wasn't concerned with the wing but wanted the other items included. When I received the wing I liked it but it had a pinch flat, so I contacted Mike at DRIS to order a new bladder, explaining where I purchased the wing. Unfortunately he didn't have a bladder to sell me, but offered to patch the wing for free. I have purchased some items from DRIS in the past but I would not consider myself a big customer. Mike scored a ton of goodwill with me by offering to fix it for free and not being snarky about where I purchased it from.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I got some of the DSS bolt-on weights (used) for my DSS backplate. But, they did not come with any hardware for mounting them or any instructions. Hopefully, someone here can help me with some info. I called DSS and spoke with Tobin to try and purchase the necessary hardware to attach the plates.

Stuart,

How many times have you called me now for advice? 2-3?

Did I not spent at least 40 minutes on the phone detailing what I recommend in a BP&W for you?

Then you choose to ignore my advise, buy a used set up with different wing than I recommend for warm water diving.

When you called about fasteners I did answer your question fully.

I specifically told you that you need 1/4 x 20 "button heads" in stainless steel, and a pair of washers.

IIRC you stated that you purchased used, non standard thickness prototype weight plates.

These require fasteners of a length we don't have on hand. That's why I suggested you
*go* to a marine supply and find fasteners that don't project through the weight plates.

Good grief.

Tobin