vixtor
Contributor
Hello,
I just want to let you know you were all right. After so much time reading how great and different a BP/W is from a jacket (and trying to defend my ProQD i3
), I decided (having no way to see or rent one locally) to just buy and try. Fortunately the money was well spent. Following your advice I went for DSS, and with Tobin's help I selected a stainless steel backplate with hog harness and a LCD30 wing, that both me and my usual buddy purchased.
Yesterday I made my first two dives in it. The harness was adjusted as we guessed the night before. We had to make final adjustments to it while wearing the wetsuit, which was an unpleasant moment in the sun, but we finally arranged the harness as we thought it should be. We had some worries about the corrugated hose length - it looked short. If we put the LP hose through the inner tube it will stay on the shoulder, but slightly too far away on the exterior side of the shoulder. In the end we decided to leave the inflator hose free. We dropped ~2kg (4.4 lbs) of lead from our previous 8kg (17.6lbs), to account for the backplate, and thinking to adjust the weighting at the end of the dive, with empty tanks.
The first surprise came during the surface swim. There is no discomfort caused by the back-inflated wing. We swam on our back as usual, rotating vertically or face down from time to time, to check the depth below, then easily returning on our backs. The position in water is maybe not as high as in a jacket, but it is high enough anyway. The idea that a wing pushes you face-down in the water at surface is a fake myth that should be killed.
For the descent, a pure horizontal descent didn't really worked, but going a little head or feet first, to raise a valve enough vented perfectly. Under water, the short corrugated hose kept the inflator always on the shoulder even if it was untied - it was very easy to find. The rear valve was also very easy to find even with 5mm gloves, and very easy to pull. I deflated the rear valve by holding two fingers on the wire and the rest of the fingers on the valve itself (so I was not pulling/moving against the wing, holding the valve fixed). I was feeling the valve opening and the air escaping through my fingers. The fact that the wing is a U-shape, not a O-shape was no issue, it vented easily through the rear valve. At most, I had to raise the shoulders a little, then raise the butt back, in order to move some air, but usually there's no need for such movement - it just vents, of course, in the correct posture.
Underwater, I felt a little heavy, but the overall feeling was great. I was able to put my hands parallel to my body without hitting bulky pockets. The D-rings are large and it was very easy to clip items through them. I felt that my shoulder straps were still too large (the backplate was moving on my back, from left to right, but not much). Anyway. for the first dive, this freedom of movement that the backplate had stopped me from trying many positions underwater. The standard horizontal position was very steady (I was somehow feeling the placement of the air bubble across the wing's length, and was able to hover without any problem). My feet didn't feel as floaty anymore. It was a very enjoyable dive. My buddy also said he noticed it was accelerating more easily and swimming faster through the water - which we thought is related to the more streamlined setup. At the end of the dive, for some reason, it was much easier to control my ascent speed - I really did go up at an almost constant speed, with much better control than usually.
The only thing that I didn't enjoy was inflating the wing orally. While in the water I can reach the mouthpiece if i rotate my head completely to the left, still the left hand position on the inflator, for pressing the purge button is very awkward and unstable. I would hold the inflator better with my right hand, but then I need to use my left to hold the regulator, which tangles my hands. Maybe my backplate is not at the proper height on my back (but I don't think so, because if it would be higher, the waist strap would be too high). Probably I just need more exercise. Anyway, inflating orally at the surface, when the tank pulls the backplate down is impossible - the inflator is way too short, I just cannot bend my neck enough.
During the first dive I also had the tank sitting too high on my back, and hitting the back of my head too much, but this was easily fixed during the second dive. The HP hose presses the wing too much for my taste (being oriented downward on my MK17), but I hope to fix it with miflex hoses in the near future.
At the end of the dive, we started to check our weights. I had 6 weights of 1kg (2.2 pounds) each. I removed three of them one by one, while being amazed that I was still being able to sink. In the end, my perfect weighting was 3kg (6.6 pounds). This is with a 7mm wetsuit, that usually required 8kg (17.6 pounds) for scuba and which requires by itself (just for snorkeling) 9kg (19.8 lbs). My math is not able to explain this huge weights drop, but I am very happy about it. The second dive confirmed the weighting, so it is right.
During the second dive I have tightened the shoulders, but forgot to move back the waist D-ring. Because of this, when I have discovered, I was unable to move the knife to my left - it staid in a central, not so comfortable, position during the dive. But except for this small annoyance, the rig was stable on my back and the weighting was just beautiful.
Speaking about the knife, it already rusted on its surface, 2 hours after leaving the water from the first dive. But I don't have big expectations from it. I am just curious how much time it will still be usable. The sheath is very rigid, and putting the knife back if I take it out is complicated, maybe it will become more flexible in time. There's no rust on other metal parts, which is good.
I had the pleasure of trying various postures underwater - I was even able to swim on my back underwater, which I usually considered very hard. Also, staying vertical in the water column was very easy - when I was trying this with the jacket I was not feeling very comfortable because the jacket was floating up. If we are at the subject of floating up - the crotch strap is ok, not crushing anything too bad ;-)
I think I can still tighten the shoulders a little - btw, how tight is right? the problem is that too tight will also mean too high (but maybe this would be better because it will provide more available inflator length.
And for the end - washing the wing is so much easier than fighting with a jacket.
The conclusion is that the difference between a BP/W and jacket is huge, and the winner for me is the BP/W. Because Tobin's is my first wing I don't know if all wings are that good, or I was just lucky, but I'm not coming back to my jacket (it is already for sale on a local site).
Thank you everybody for posting so many positive BP/W and DSS reviews that you managed to convince me to buy blindly, and thanks Tobin for helping me in the equipment selection and for the great equipment itself.
I just want to let you know you were all right. After so much time reading how great and different a BP/W is from a jacket (and trying to defend my ProQD i3
), I decided (having no way to see or rent one locally) to just buy and try. Fortunately the money was well spent. Following your advice I went for DSS, and with Tobin's help I selected a stainless steel backplate with hog harness and a LCD30 wing, that both me and my usual buddy purchased.Yesterday I made my first two dives in it. The harness was adjusted as we guessed the night before. We had to make final adjustments to it while wearing the wetsuit, which was an unpleasant moment in the sun, but we finally arranged the harness as we thought it should be. We had some worries about the corrugated hose length - it looked short. If we put the LP hose through the inner tube it will stay on the shoulder, but slightly too far away on the exterior side of the shoulder. In the end we decided to leave the inflator hose free. We dropped ~2kg (4.4 lbs) of lead from our previous 8kg (17.6lbs), to account for the backplate, and thinking to adjust the weighting at the end of the dive, with empty tanks.
The first surprise came during the surface swim. There is no discomfort caused by the back-inflated wing. We swam on our back as usual, rotating vertically or face down from time to time, to check the depth below, then easily returning on our backs. The position in water is maybe not as high as in a jacket, but it is high enough anyway. The idea that a wing pushes you face-down in the water at surface is a fake myth that should be killed.
For the descent, a pure horizontal descent didn't really worked, but going a little head or feet first, to raise a valve enough vented perfectly. Under water, the short corrugated hose kept the inflator always on the shoulder even if it was untied - it was very easy to find. The rear valve was also very easy to find even with 5mm gloves, and very easy to pull. I deflated the rear valve by holding two fingers on the wire and the rest of the fingers on the valve itself (so I was not pulling/moving against the wing, holding the valve fixed). I was feeling the valve opening and the air escaping through my fingers. The fact that the wing is a U-shape, not a O-shape was no issue, it vented easily through the rear valve. At most, I had to raise the shoulders a little, then raise the butt back, in order to move some air, but usually there's no need for such movement - it just vents, of course, in the correct posture.
Underwater, I felt a little heavy, but the overall feeling was great. I was able to put my hands parallel to my body without hitting bulky pockets. The D-rings are large and it was very easy to clip items through them. I felt that my shoulder straps were still too large (the backplate was moving on my back, from left to right, but not much). Anyway. for the first dive, this freedom of movement that the backplate had stopped me from trying many positions underwater. The standard horizontal position was very steady (I was somehow feeling the placement of the air bubble across the wing's length, and was able to hover without any problem). My feet didn't feel as floaty anymore. It was a very enjoyable dive. My buddy also said he noticed it was accelerating more easily and swimming faster through the water - which we thought is related to the more streamlined setup. At the end of the dive, for some reason, it was much easier to control my ascent speed - I really did go up at an almost constant speed, with much better control than usually.
The only thing that I didn't enjoy was inflating the wing orally. While in the water I can reach the mouthpiece if i rotate my head completely to the left, still the left hand position on the inflator, for pressing the purge button is very awkward and unstable. I would hold the inflator better with my right hand, but then I need to use my left to hold the regulator, which tangles my hands. Maybe my backplate is not at the proper height on my back (but I don't think so, because if it would be higher, the waist strap would be too high). Probably I just need more exercise. Anyway, inflating orally at the surface, when the tank pulls the backplate down is impossible - the inflator is way too short, I just cannot bend my neck enough.
During the first dive I also had the tank sitting too high on my back, and hitting the back of my head too much, but this was easily fixed during the second dive. The HP hose presses the wing too much for my taste (being oriented downward on my MK17), but I hope to fix it with miflex hoses in the near future.
At the end of the dive, we started to check our weights. I had 6 weights of 1kg (2.2 pounds) each. I removed three of them one by one, while being amazed that I was still being able to sink. In the end, my perfect weighting was 3kg (6.6 pounds). This is with a 7mm wetsuit, that usually required 8kg (17.6 pounds) for scuba and which requires by itself (just for snorkeling) 9kg (19.8 lbs). My math is not able to explain this huge weights drop, but I am very happy about it. The second dive confirmed the weighting, so it is right.
During the second dive I have tightened the shoulders, but forgot to move back the waist D-ring. Because of this, when I have discovered, I was unable to move the knife to my left - it staid in a central, not so comfortable, position during the dive. But except for this small annoyance, the rig was stable on my back and the weighting was just beautiful.
Speaking about the knife, it already rusted on its surface, 2 hours after leaving the water from the first dive. But I don't have big expectations from it. I am just curious how much time it will still be usable. The sheath is very rigid, and putting the knife back if I take it out is complicated, maybe it will become more flexible in time. There's no rust on other metal parts, which is good.
I had the pleasure of trying various postures underwater - I was even able to swim on my back underwater, which I usually considered very hard. Also, staying vertical in the water column was very easy - when I was trying this with the jacket I was not feeling very comfortable because the jacket was floating up. If we are at the subject of floating up - the crotch strap is ok, not crushing anything too bad ;-)
I think I can still tighten the shoulders a little - btw, how tight is right? the problem is that too tight will also mean too high (but maybe this would be better because it will provide more available inflator length.
And for the end - washing the wing is so much easier than fighting with a jacket.
The conclusion is that the difference between a BP/W and jacket is huge, and the winner for me is the BP/W. Because Tobin's is my first wing I don't know if all wings are that good, or I was just lucky, but I'm not coming back to my jacket (it is already for sale on a local site).
Thank you everybody for posting so many positive BP/W and DSS reviews that you managed to convince me to buy blindly, and thanks Tobin for helping me in the equipment selection and for the great equipment itself.
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