First BCD

[halemanō]

Well, you have posted to the backplate/wing (BP/W) capital of the world! Right here on SB. You might find that BC recommendations are outnumbered about 20:1 by BP/Ws.

Perhaps the percentage of ScubaBoard jacket BC users vs ScubaBoard bp/w BC users is actually more in line with worldwide distribution (significantly more jackets), but the jacket users are comfortable with their gear decision and don't feel the need to validate their purchase by talking more people into being like them?

And then there are a number of bp/w manufacturers / retailers here on SB that are desperate to make sales. I have never seen such a hard sales push towards any recreational gear style as that of the bp/w here on SB, and it always seems to be the same 20-30 members.

Anytime there is such a loud hard sell going on I am very suspicious!

[Matt S.]

Perhaps the percentage of ScubaBoard jacket BC users vs ScubaBoard bp/w BC users is actually more in line with worldwide distribution (significantly more jackets), but the jacket users are comfortable with their gear decision and don't feel the need to validate their purchase by talking more people into being like them?

I advocate bp/w setups because I tried it and liked it more than my jacket style BCD. I was surprised to find that I liked it a lot more, which is why I often contribute to these threads.

I'll also advocate HID lights with adjustable focus, computers with big displays instead of tiny watches, spring straps for fins, and cheap drysuit thermals from that guy on ebay. I also like snorkels with the floppy part on the tube, when I use one at all.

So perhaps there is no conspiracy--we may just really like the gear.

[halemanō]

I advocate bp/w setups because I tried it and liked it more than my jacket style BCD. I was surprised to find that I liked it a lot more, which is why I often contribute to these threads.

I'll also advocate HID lights with adjustable focus, computers with big displays instead of tiny watches, spring straps for fins, and cheap drysuit thermals from that guy on ebay. I also like snorkels with the floppy part on the tube, when I use one at all.

So perhaps there is no conspiracy--we may just really like the gear.

How can you speak for ALL the vociferous bp/w proponents? I am a firm believer of proper tool for the intended use. It is completely understandable that drysuit divers would have a higher percentage of non-jacket BC users than non-drysuit divers. I am still contending that even on SB there are more non-drysuit divers and also more jacket BC users.

For now I just plan on diving in warm water. I may later start diving more locally in what is considered temperate water. Dry suits are not really in the future for me.

With this additional information provided by the original poster why wouldn't it be a proper recommendation for the OP to consider what the vast majority of similar divers are successfully using? (and even the majority of similar SB divers)

[Matt S.]

How can you speak for ALL the vociferous bp/w proponents?

Says the guy who proposed a conspiracy! Sheesh. My only agenda on this thread is to share my experiences with the OP. I'm sorry if my post was confusing. I am not trying to speak for all backplate/wing users. But in my own experience, they are great in cold and warm water and therefore worth the OP's time to investigate.

[rstofer]

Perhaps the percentage of ScubaBoard jacket BC users vs ScubaBoard bp/w BC users is actually more in line with worldwide distribution (significantly more jackets), but the jacket users are comfortable with their gear decision and don't feel the need to validate their purchase by talking more people into being like them?

And then there are a number of bp/w manufacturers / retailers here on SB that are desperate to make sales. I have never seen such a hard sales push towards any recreational gear style as that of the bp/w here on SB, and it always seems to be the same 20-30 members.

Anytime there is such a loud hard sell going on I am very suspicious!

If there are a bunch of jacket advocates, they don't visit this forum.

I really don't want to appear to be making a hard sell. The OP's (in general) are asking for advice and people, myself included, try to provide it. But it is only our opinion and has no basis in reality.

Do you really think that, at the end of the day, I give a rat's a$$ what people buy? I don't own a shop, I don't know anyone who does own a shop and if I did know someone who owned a shop, I wouldn't admit it. I offer an opinion. If people don't like my opinion, they are free to ignore it. I would and my wife does...

I still have my jacket BC and I still like it. I prefer my BP/W and I'm not planning to go back to the BC but you have never seen me write one bad thing about it. As far as I'm concerned, it served me well and if I couldn't afford to try a BP/W, it would still be serving me well.

I believe the hogarthian BP/W has warts as well. However, when I bring them up, I get attacked. So I guess I just won't poke that hornet's nest again.

But if you want to STOP people from offering opinions, keep attacking them. Because, really, I don't care what people buy or where they buy it. I don't know the OP's, I won't ever meet them and I certainly won't be diving with them. Their decisions make no difference to me.

It's just an opinion.

Richard

[dmoore19]

If there are a bunch of jacket advocates, they don't visit this forum.

I really don't want to appear to be making a hard sell. The OP's (in general) are asking for advice and people, myself included, try to provide it. But it is only our opinion and has no basis in reality.

Do you really think that, at the end of the day, I give a rat's a$$ what people buy? I don't own a shop, I don't know anyone who does own a shop and if I did know someone who owned a shop, I wouldn't admit it. I offer an opinion. If people don't like my opinion, they are free to ignore it. I would and my wife does...

I still have my jacket BC and I still like it. I prefer my BP/W and I'm not planning to go back to the BC but you have never seen me write one bad thing about it. As far as I'm concerned, it served me well and if I couldn't afford to try a BP/W, it would still be serving me well.

I believe the hogarthian BP/W has warts as well. However, when I bring them up, I get attacked. So I guess I just won't poke that hornet's nest again.

But if you want to STOP people from offering opinions, keep attacking them. Because, really, I don't care what people buy or where they buy it. I don't know the OP's, I won't ever meet them and I certainly won't be diving with them. Their decisions make no difference to me.

It's just an opinion.

Richard

If you think you get attacked for that, try saying something good about a "poodle jacket" or mention a hybrid back inflate.

[rstofer]

If you think you get attacked for that, try saying something good about a "poodle jacket" or mention a hybrid back inflate.

Sure, why not!

I have a 20 year old SeaQuest ADVi. It has 38# of lift with the majority of it low, well below my chest. As a result, I float very high out of the water while I wait on the boat. And I float right straight up with no tendency to turn in any direction.

The bladder is similar to a wing in that the plastic bag is inside a fabric cover. The bladder system is suspended by an internal web system such that the squeeze isn't much of an issue. The bladder inflates outward but the web system stays in place.

There is a hard plastic backplate that locates the tank perfectly and the single camband (I prefer double) holds the tank securely.

It has two pockets that actually hold things like my dive table and slate. It doesn't have integrated weights and that's a plus. I hate integrated weights.

It's retired now but I haven't sold it nor do I intend to. I couldn't get anything for it and it is still a reminder of better days. Warm water, sandy beaches, sleeping in a tent on the beach, eating American School food and drinking embassy wine. Better days... At least in terms of diving.

So you won't see me talking down MY jacket BC. I have no experience with any of the newer models so I really can't say much about them.

One thing I have noticed over the years: there is a difference between change and improvement.

Richard

[RAWalker]

If you think you get attacked for that, try saying something good about a "poodle jacket" or mention a hybrid back inflate.

I've been there and done that! Even been told I haven't logged enough dives to validate my opinion. I will continue to give my opinion. I too dive multiple configurations. I don't like the squeeze of a "poodle jacket" I have a hybrid Back inflator that I find fairly comfortable and still use to DM with OW students. My personal preference is a BP&W but (here comes the flame) I prefer a Deluxe harness with shoulder releases.
The reason I use the Hybrid with OW students is they have enough to consider early in the learning process they don't need the extra configuration variables the the BP&W present.

So what is my opinion for a first BCD:
Whatever feels comfortable to you, fits you well and that suits the type of diving you intend to do.
My wife is also a diver and likes the backinflator hybrid.
Just make sure that you choices are based on worst case needs.
Consider the tanks you'll use and their buoyancy characteristics.
The most weight you'll need. (fresh and saltwater)
The thickest wetsuit.
Extra equipment you may carry.

Erroring with not enough lift can be hazzardous but a little too much is just not as smooth swimming in the water

[halemanō]

If there are a bunch of jacket advocates, they don't visit this forum.

I have two theories on that fact. The first would be that anybody who really recommends a jacket BC is dog piled mercelessly so others who feel the same tend to keep it to themselves.

I've already postulated the second;

Perhaps the percentage of ScubaBoard jacket BC users vs ScubaBoard bp/w BC users is actually more in line with worldwide distribution (significantly more jackets), but the jacket users are comfortable with their gear decision and don't feel the need to validate their purchase by talking more people into being like them?

Could be that most SB jacket divers have their BC issue handled and have no reason or desire to visit this forum.

[deepseafalcon]

I have two theories on that fact. The first would be that anybody who really recommends a jacket BC is dog piled mercelessly so others who feel the same tend to keep it to themselves.

I've already postulated the second;

Could be that most SB jacket divers have their BC issue handled and have no reason or desire to visit this forum.

I believe there is a third reason:
people who frequent a forum like this are either very committed to their hobby, or very gear focused, or both. As such, they are more likely to give a "new" concept like BP/W a try, especially if it has it's origin in something "cool" such as tech diving. (note: I am making fun of myself as much as of anybody else who feels addressed )

This might explain why at the Scubaboard appear to be more than the average 1% BP/W users (as we could read in another post, that's the rough market share of BP/W!)

Now, on top of that one can often observe that many people have the tendency to strongly advocate, up to being a missionary, their own buying decisions especially when they are the result of a long thought & search process.

And, of course, giving well intended advice is what internet forums are much about, isn't it?

So this might explain the large number of BP/W threads, while BCD users more likely just bought something in their LDS without much fretting. Which is, as we know, not so easy with a BP/W for lack of availability.

I, for my part, would not disagree that I fall in above categories. However, I definitely want to share my own experiences for what they are worth, and try to explain my "path" so others might benefit from the time and money I wasted on the way. After all, without such advice I would still dive my old heavy Shute and think there is not better way.

Btw, I have decided for a specific BP/W setup in 2005 and have not changed one single piece of it since then, other than repair. Pretty good, huh

Safe diving, d.s.f.