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Please let us inquiring minds know a little bit more about your scuba background.
You claim to be an instructor and yet repeatedly make blatantly outrageous claims which anyone who actually read the standards of practice for their agency would know.
So...Instructor Level, agency and certification numbers please.
Someone who is appearing online as an industry professional should have no problem with clearly outlining what their instructorship is in, especially considering the level of expertise and (reading between the lines) years of experience you claim to have.
ClassAction once bubbled... I went to my LDS recently. When tried to sell me a BC, I (politely) explained that I got a really good deal on the BP/wings. They looked at me like I was crazy. They said it was "strictly for tech" diving and that I should be in a regular BC.
My impressions:
(1) They simply were pissed off that I didn't buy from them (obvious).
(2) Even though they sell the same BP/wings, they STILL push all newbies into a jacket BC. My guess is that they want to sell you the jacket, then convince you to "upgrade" into the BP/wings, which gives them two sales.
Any guidance?
Herding students is just a little bit easier with a jacket BCD, so the shops like to use them. That means they attract employees who use the jackets.
The absolute top of the line BP and wing setups cost about the same as a mid-range jacket BCD. If you beat the harness to death, all they can sell you is a few feet of web. If you beat the wing to death, you can probably fix it or you can replace it for no more than about $300. It's hard to make a steady income that way.
I can see how it would be a pain in the butt to rent backplates. The jackets are easier to adjust to each user. I suppose you could put some adjustment scheme in the harnesses, however, that presents problems of it's own.
The jackets feel so much better in the showroom that they are easier to sell to a new diver. The sale happens in the showroom, not in the water.
Maybe it's because I'm a novice diver but could someone explain to me how a BP/w could be viewed as to complicated for OW. Does the metal backplate intimidate people?
BP/w are the most uncomplicated, easiest to get out of rig around. Compare a BP/w to a vest style BC with cummerbund and snap buckle, chest strap, and integrated weight system. Let's see one quick release buckle compared to all that, which do you think would be easier to get out of? If the crotch strap is to much task loading then make them leave it off during OW, then the BP/w would be as easy to get off as a weight belt. One release, pull out your arms and that's it.
It also can't be because it's a back inflate because there are plenty of back inflate BCs out there.
I really dont understand some of the points around here
To the question at hand, if it were me I would find another dive shop.
I most be in the minority because I actually got talked into a BP/w by my LDS, Wateree Dive Center.
After reading these boards and knowing that I wanted a back inflate for it's trim characteristics, I went to my LDS intent on ordering a dive rite transpak. At the time I kind of was more interested in a BP/w but I didn't want to be labeled as a tech wanna be.
When I told one of the owners that I wanted to order one and after telling him why, long story short, he recommended a BP/w. He sold me a OMS alu backplate super cheap and all the webbing and hardware. I asked him if he could order a Qxchecq wing for me and he told me flat out I could get a better deal online. He basically throw away what would have probably been a decent mark up for maybe a ten or twenty dollar net sale.
Of course, know I go out of my way to spend money there.
Getting to your question, it sounds to me like the fellow that helped you at the shop wasn't trying real hard. My first question to folks is "What type of diving are you planning on?" Folks headed to the tropics on a once a year vacation and may take a charter out once during their stay, not sure a BP and Wing is the right choice for them (unless that's what they are asking for).
Likewise, a customer who doesn't know what kind of diving they want to do. They want to try diving just to see if they like it or are taking a class with some friends, just for fun. Again, not sure a BP and wing is the right set up here.
Now, the VAST majority of divers in the world fall into these two catagories. So, in the fellow that was trying to help you should be cut a little slack.
As far as cost, Wings run about $300, BP about $100, harness and hardware about $50. You can by a pretty nice weight integrated BC for about $300. Value is another factor when I help customers, but it's not the first question I ask.
Karl_in_Calif once bubbled... So I do not know if they are all sitting around in their backplates as they learn to doff and don their backplates and harnasses in the open water without cutting the crotch strap with their knives to do it.
I'm guessing here.
Obviously guessing.
More speculation drawn from lack of experience.
Why would the students need to cut their crotch straps?
I do 90% of my dives from a 22' Whaler or Avon. Every dive is don/doff in water. I do it with no problem, and without cutting my rig.
That's in a drysuit with 7ft hose and bungeed backup reg.
Karl_in_Calif once bubbled... mostly gave you buoyancy at the surface, if you orally inflated them, or which gave you instant buoyancy if you pulled the pin on them at depth that activated the CO2 cartridge that was designed to get you out of a pickel in a minute, if you got yourself into a pickle.
ScubaPro changed all that one fine day.
ScubaPro invented a "jacket" that was like a perfectly fitting horsecollar B/C, except it became a jacket.
Your history is a little off there, both in dates and order of occurrance.
My buddy certified in 1978, using a horsecollar.
It WAS orally inflated at depth, and worked fine as a BC.
He went directly to a Seatek wing attached to the same Aqua Lung ABS backpack. Jackets didn't show up for a few more years.
He bought his first jacket BC in 2001, but is moving back to the wing.
"Back in the 1960s" the horsecollar was either not available, or rarely used.
First, usint the most expensive bp/wing is less expemsive than the cheapest bc for student rentals. Why? Because with jackets...in order to fit 6 students you need to own 20 jackets because you might have 6 big students or six little ones. With a bp and harness you can strap it on any one so you only need one for as many sets as you will have students.
I teach PADI OW classes to students wearing bp/wings all the time and so do others.
BIG misconception...
Sales do have something to do with it. When you dump $18000 to get a scubapro dealership and they require you to sell huge minimum volumes anualy, you must sell what they make.
Ignorance also plays a role though.
When evaluating the value of the bp/wing I really think you should look at the whole configuration. That's when they really shine.
Why would the students need to cut their crotch straps?
I do 90% of my dives from a 22' Whaler or Avon. Every dive is don/doff in water. I do it with no problem, and without cutting my rig.
That's in a drysuit with 7ft hose and bungeed backup reg.
Never strangled myself either.
What shop do you teach for?
Please tell me the technique.
I recently did a boat dive where there was no boat ladder. I had to remove my jacket style BCD in the water to get back in the boat. On land it sort of falls off with help from gravity but in the water with the BCD inflated it was difficult. I ended up unclipping the fastex shoulder buckle which I never do on land and it came off very quickly. After this experience I was considering installing a fastex on one shoulder when I get a BP&W.
Underwater I have heard that some divers flip it over the head.
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