Why does an LDS push newbies away from BP/WINGS?

[ClassAction]

Hi,

I'm new to diving -- just a few dives since my open water cert this summer. I just bought a BP + wing, in large part due to the posts on this board. I got an incredible deal of all of it...

I went to my LDS recently. When tried to sell me a BC, I (politely) explained that I got a really good deal on the BP/wings. They looked at me like I was crazy. They said it was "strictly for tech" diving and that I should be in a regular BC.

My impressions:

(1) They simply were pissed off that I didn't buy from them (obvious).

(2) Even though they sell the same BP/wings, they STILL push all newbies into a jacket BC. My guess is that they want to sell you the jacket, then convince you to "upgrade" into the BP/wings, which gives them two sales.

Any guidance?

[DiverBuoy]

I'd say that money is the motivation or ignorance one. If you say they sell the same BP/Wings in there store that eliminates the first thought I had which is merely "We don't sell it, so you need to buy our stuff".

That not being the case (IE they do carry your rig) you must remember that a very very large portion of the industry still sees BP/Wings as only technical gear. Eventually, this will change, but for now the Scuba industry suffers from being steeped in tradition, and indoctrinated beliefs.

[hambleto]

The LDS by me sells BP/Wing. I asked them these question:

When I was looking at taking the OW class from them, I asked if I could learn on one instead of a BC. They said no.

I offered to pay MORE to learn on them. They said no.

I asked if I buy one will they let me learn on it. They again said no.

Finaly I asked if I learn on the jacket can I buy one and have them set it up (I did offer to pay them to do this for me). They said they would not sell it to me unless I take their AOW, Nitrox, and a couple other courses.

Needless to say, I am taking my OW in Orlando and I will not buy my gear from the LDS here.

[hambleto]

There are a couple of LDSes that I have spoken to that are willing to train people on a BP/Wing. (Just not the one near me) If nothing else, at least let them try it out during thier OW training. What better way to try out new gear than to have someone who is familiar with it?

[boomx5]

Right before I logged on to this post I was reading through my old PADI OW manual circa. 84'. As I was thumbing through it I saw half of the divers in a backpack and wing configuration. What alot of people don't understand is that a backpack and wing used to be pretty much the norm. So my question is why the flip flop on this issue. PADI obviously used to condone it, but why not now?

[DiverBuoy]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...


To my knowledge, which admittedly is not infinite, I know of no training agency that certifies new students who have never been certified before, with gear akin to a backplate and wings.

We have several who fit brand-new students in BP/Wings and these students do all their diving from day 1 in this configuration.

[ChrisM]

It is conceivable to me however, that there might be One Noble Instructor out there, somewhere, perhaps with an SSI active-status teaching credential, who does in fact do so. He may indeed be living and teaching in the neighborhood of Beverly Hills California Tinsletown USA

Until GUE comes out with its promised OW course, don't think he's teaching any OW courses....


Shops push Traditional BCs because:

1. That's what the shop monkey was trained on, and people are resistant to change.

2. For some reason, BPS are viewed as tech/DIR/used by arrogant dvers

3. $$$$$$$ Some brands - Zeagle, i.e., there are others I am sure -- have incentives such as giving a free BC to the shop for every ten or so they sell......

I am still surprised to walk into a dive shop in LA and find that they actually carry BPs and wings.

[Northeastwrecks]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...


To my knowledge, which admittedly is not infinite, I know of no training agency that certifies new students who have never been certified before, with gear akin to a backplate and wings.

Now, correct me if I am wrong, or draw and quarter me, and hang me on a tree if I have misspoke.

Get out the paring knife.

My LDS is a PADI 5-Star. We'll teach and certify O/W students in a BP&W.

I see no reason to avoid using one for instruction. In particular, doing so complies with PADI guidelines. Its also a nice rig.

For the most part, the staff all use BP&W's. A couple use Dive-Rite TPII's. The rest use BC's.

Telling someone that they must take additional courses in order to use the rig is, IMHO, garbage. There is nothing in those courses that will teach you how to use a BP&W. Instead, you should learn all of the basics during O/W.

[hambleto]

I just called the PADI office http://www.padi.com/english/webservices/officecontact/
and spoke to their instruction department. They do not care what kind of BC you train on (back inflation, BP/WING, or jacket) as long as it has a single tank BC.

I then called the NAUI office
http://www.naui.com/Contacts.html
They told me the same. Although the store does have the right to specify what THEY (the store) will and will not train on.

[Hallmac]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...


To my knowledge, which admittedly is not infinite, I know of no training agency that certifies new students who have never been certified before, with gear akin to a backplate and wings.

Now, correct me if I am wrong, or draw and quarter me, and hang me on a tree if I have misspoke.

Are you talking about providing the equipment or allowing the equipment.

We don't provide bp/w but you can take the course with them if you want. I don't care eithor way. And yes I'm SSI

Hallmac