What wings are you using with your Freedom Plate?

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Eric Sedletzky

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I'm taking a poll on what wings users of the Freedom Plate are using.
I'd like some feedback on what people have tried and what they ultimately settled on.

For a long time I endorsed Oxycheq wings.
First with their original Razor and Signature series. Then later when the Mach V came out I redesigned the plate to accommodate the narrowness of that wing, plus tried to design it to also fit virtually any other wing out there that had slots - and maybe some that didn't originally have slots but the user may have put in their own.
I'm seeing now that there are many more players in the market so I'm expanding my mental data base so to speak.

I'm doing a little research to find out what people are using.
Maybe some of you would be willing to share your experiences, maybe with multiple wings and find that one works better than others.
I'm looking to expand my knowledge so I can try one myself and also to steer people to the best overall option when they seek advice.

Also if you have tips on harness kits and cam buckles would be a bonus.
I used to sell Oxycheq but I see there are many other options out there on those as well.
One thing, the harness webbing can't have a grommet installed in the center of the length because it will interfere with how the webbing strings up on the Freedom Plate.

I can give some dimensions of the slots:
The large plate the slots are 3.75" long with a 2.25" space between the two sets with an overall measurement of 9.75 from top to bottom (of the slots).

The small plate has 3.5" long slots with a 2" gap between the two sets and an overall top to bottom measurement of 9" (of the slots).

With these measurements maybe you can give some feedback on what slot dimensions are on different wings and also provide a comment on your opinion of overall quality of your wing.
It would be difficult for me to order every single wing out there just to see who makes what.

It would also help to add any info about any customer service issues, good or bad, with the wing manufacturer or retailer (or internet source) where you bought it.
Add a price point if you want.

Thanks in advance.

Eric Sedletzky
 
Last edited:
Mach V 18 and 30.

N
 
Oxycheque Mach #30
 
I sandwich it between the plate and the tank rail. Not the way you intended the plate to be used but it works great. It also works in the typical configuration sandwiching the wing between the tank and the tank rail and you could also take the tank rail off and sandwich the wing between the tank and the plate itself. I use it the first way I mentioned because I know where I like the wing and don't need to move it around and I like having the wing and plate married to each other even before locking the cam bands; it is easier for me to handle. I personally think the plate that I have with the travel wing sandwiched between the tank rail and the plate is the best single tank setup I've ever handled. This configuration is not possible though with your new plate design; the new plate is pretty though Eric.
 
I sandwich it between the plate and the tank rail. Not the way you intended the plate to be used but it works great. It also works in the typical configuration sandwiching the wing between the tank and the tank rail and you could also take the tank rail off and sandwich the wing between the tank and the plate itself. I use it the first way I mentioned because I know where I like the wing and don't need to move it around and I like having the wing and plate married to each other even before locking the cam bands; it is easier for me to handle. I personally think the plate that I have with the travel wing sandwiched between the tank rail and the plate is the best single tank setup I've ever handled. This configuration is not possible though with your new plate design; the new plate is pretty though Eric.
The old rail system was a very popular model with many users because of it's versatility. On the other side it was a curse with many other users because it caused confusion.
Users such as yourself which have imagination and are capable of doing things can see and figure out all the different options on how to use the plate. But's that's not always the case.
Others don't even know which end of a screwdriver to hold and it was those that had problems.

Whenever something starts to get too many parts or has to be assembled in any fashion is when a certain percentage of the population doesn't get it. I don't mean to sound condescending in any way but it's true. You have no idea how many hours I have spent on the phone trying to explain some of the simplest things.
And then of course everybody always wanted to know if the rail was a STA, and if they could use their own STA that they already have, and are the holes on 11" centers?
One of my biggest fears was that somebody was going to get a bright idea and put slots into the detachable rail and use it as a STA instead of using the slots in the plate, and as a result those small screws I used to hold the rail on would snap and the diver would lose the tank and everything. That's part of the reason why I never put slots into the rail. If I had I would have permanently welded the rail on to idiot proof it.
To me simpler is always better. I'm trying to boil down the design to a one piece plate like the original model was when I started.

There are also other factors such as, the plate now is shaped to such a degree that trying to make a flat rail mate up all the way from base to top is not possible. Using a rail was somewhat of a sacrifice, and I realized it at the time; because I had to leave a long straight section in the plate to make it work.
Also, since I switched materials from 304 to 316, that 2" square pipe that I was ripping the rails out of is a special order and really expensive in 316. The 316 rod is more available and I can keep the costs under control.
And last, getting 316 screws and nuts can be done but if people lose them and then replace them with the standard 18-8 (303) that they sell in hardware stores I'm afraid of problems with different grades of stainless.

I need to see which wings will work the best then I need to figure out how to make it possible to somehow clip the wing onto the plate simply (and user friendly) to make it more set up friendly.
Part of the nice thing about leaving the wing free floating is that it can be adjusted up and down indepentently of the plate and tank and as a result there is an infinite variety of positions the diver can use. If I start putting holes in the plate for a place to attach a wing so it stays put then that hole most likely will be good for only one wing model and also may not be right where the user want's it.
To cover all the possibilities to attach wings I would have to riddle the plate with holes just so people could have every possible option.
I don't want to do that.
 
Eric,

Tobin has always stressed that most wings are damaged by pinch flats caused bt the plate. His solution was to make the DSS system easy to disassemble. Wings that require an STA such as Halcyon's are easy to disassemble by undoing the wing nuts holding the STA. Wings that do not require a STA, such as Oxycheq, are harder to disassemble because you need to undo the cam bands to separate the wing from the plate.

One potential solution to the problem maybe the Highland Cam bands by XS scuba. They are designed to come apart so that you do not need to left the plate over the tank to mount it. If you make one side of the slots of your plate deep enough so that the "catch" can pass through the plate for easy removal, that may solve your problems as long as the catch can also pass though the wing slots. I would think that it should.
 
I hear you Eric! Don't make that plate look like Swiss cheese. The plate I have with the removable rail is perfect for me but I can see how your new plate with the more aggressive contours won't work with the solid rail. Your tubular rail system is about the only way I can think of to get the tank off the divers butt. Furthermore, it looks like it will fit any wing with cam band slots or an open design like Dive Rites. But without being able to attach the wing permanently onto the plate you will always get those questions asking "how does this thing work". You have some brainstorming to do my friend. If a light bulb goes off in my head I'll let you know.
 
I hear you Eric! Don't make that plate look like Swiss cheese. The plate I have with the removable rail is perfect for me but I can see how your new plate with the more aggressive contours won't work with the solid rail. Your tubular rail system is about the only way I can think of to get the tank off the divers butt. Furthermore, it looks like it will fit any wing with cam band slots or an open design like Dive Rites. But without being able to attach the wing permanently onto the plate you will always get those questions asking "how does this thing work". You have some brainstorming to do my friend. If a light bulb goes off in my head I'll let you know.
I remember when Halcyon was the first one to make a donut wing. I also remember when they were the first ones to put slots in the wing and plate to do away with the STA. I remember Michael Kane (a big DIR guy in Socal at the time) bellowing about how streamlined the rig was now since they did away with the STA making it simpler and less confusing.
Boy how things have changed.
I've been messing around with plates since those days.

Back then people had to be able to figure out things. There was a learning curve to BP/W systems and you kind of had to be "in the know" to get the stuff set up and working properly.
Now everyone expects to be spoon fed and have stuff ready to dive out of the box without seemingly having to bother with learning how to use it or set it up.

It's my personal opinion that it's no big deal to set up a rig with loose components without needing to have the wing attached to the plate like the thinking would be for a jacket or back inflate unit hanging in an LDS.
Pretty much all the side to side slop is gone and the components pretty much self center when cinched down. The height adjustments is where there is still movement. What I do is loosely snap down the top cam band and tug on the different components to get them where I want then go for the final tight snap down.
The rods that I'm using now are pretty much exactly like what it was with an attached rail, but better, because the fact that the rods aren't as sharp of an edge.

It's funny pinch flats were mentioned. When I used a single walled wing (Oxycheq Razor) I never had a flat once because there was no inner bladder to damage. However, if you did get a hole you could see it on the outside and they were easy to fix.
I did get a pinch flat in my newer Oxycheq Mach V once. It was easy to fix once I found it because I could get to it via the three sixty degree zipper. Funny thing is there was no visible evidence from the outside where the flat was so it took me a while to find it.
I really miss good simple single walled wings. I wish somebody would make one.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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