Back inflate BCD good for beginner ?

[socc]

Hello everyone,

I was looking to buy a BCD and some friends told me that the back inflated BCDs are really good once you get used to them. What are your thoughts on that since I am a beginner with not much experience yet.

I was looking into the Apeks Black Ice and Scubapro Seahack. Will the their high lift capacity be an issue for a beginner ?

Many thanks,

socc

 

[CT Sean]

Back inflate is fine for a beginner. Jacket might be alledgedly slightly easier to float on the surface with, bu tat depth I actually fine back inflate easier and - with a couple rental exceptions - I've been using a back inflate for pretty much every dive beyond my OW checkout dives. I actually hate using a jacket for rental - terrible trim (for me).

Regarding the "full featured" back inflates on the market with lots of bells and whistles and tons of lift - that can be an issue for anyone. but if one is properly weighted it should be much of an issue since there shouldn't be much air in the wing. I personally prefer (and use) a different style back inflate that doesn't involve the bells and whitles and massive lift and inherent buoyancy of a "top of the line" back inflate

---------- Post added October 16th, 2014 at 10:27 AM ----------

If possible I'd try renting or borrowing one and see how it feels

 

[danvolker]

Hello everyone,

I was looking to buy a BCD and some friends told me that the back inflated BCDs are really good once you get used to them. What are your thoughts on that since I am a beginner with not much experience yet.

I was looking into the Apeks Black Ice and Scubapro Seahack. Will the their high lift capacity be an issue for a beginner ?

Many thanks,

socc

As a beginner, there are two issues with a BC you need to focus on first:

1. You need to dial in the weight required to sink with your tank at about 800 psi to the point that with absolutely NO air in the BC....I mean suck the air out of the wing from the oral inflator---remove ALL the air....and then get dead neutral...no sinking, no floating up, with half full breath. Many crappy instructors blow through weighting, and leave new OW divers with 10 or 20 pounds too much weight....this creates massive instability with depth changes....a little tiny air bubble in the BC does not change your bouyancy that much with your depth changes....If you are going to dive salt water, do this in salt water....if you can only use a pool or fresh water, do it in the fresh, and at least you wont be ridiculously off the mark when you do get in to salt, and then get the first chance to fine tune your weighting to PERFECT....which might be at your first surface interval ( hour to kill, and a tank with 800 or 1000 psi in it )
2. You don't want much over 15 or 20 pounds of excess lift beyond your neutral weighting needs....If you use a 100 pound lift bc, and only need 15 pounds of lift to get neutral, an accidental full inflation at depth will take you from the bottom to the surface like a POLARIS MISSILE. Wearing a high lift BC is actually stupid, and anyone that has one pushed on them is someone to avoid gear advice from. If I use an 80 cu ft Al tank, my Halcyon BC has a 18 pound lift wing, and as the Halcyon I use has a steel backplate weighing 6 pounds, I am about 3 pounds heavy when I hit the water with the air removed from the wing, and at the end of the dive very close to neutral. If I use a steel 120, I am about 13 pounds heavy at the beginning of the dive.....leaving me an excess of about 5 pounds of lift. Fine for me, as the job of the BC is just to get me so the tank is not pulling me up or down.....the way I go up, or down, is by "Swimming"...a BC is NOT supposed to be an "Elevator".

As to back inflates, I think they are exponentially better than the stab jacket or vest type....much slicker in the water, so you can kick..and then glide.....the vest bc's make you glide as badly as an inflated pufferfish
Back inflates are NOT all equal. Halcyon is among the best of these, and was the first to address the needs of tech and recreational divers as a market. It is at the high end of the pricing, but I got my Halcyon set up in 1997 or 98, the first month they came out....and it is as good today as it was then....They are unparalleled for durability and longevity.
There are about 4 other brands that are good second choices....other then checking out halcyon.net, try https://www.deepseasupply.com/

 

[diversteve]

Are you planning to dive locally? If so the "high lift" won't be as big an issue as you'll be carrying more weight to compensate for the buoyancy of the thicknesses of neoprene you'll be wearing to stay warm. It will be a little excessive - and harder to pack - for warm water travel diving.

Back-Inflate is my preferred BCD since it's not constricting in front and I like not having a lot of bulk in front of me. Most people certify in jackets because that's what their shop had - one size fits all is good for a rental fleet. Also I personally can trim better with a back-inflate BCD that has rear pockets - I split my weight about 60/40 F/R and on my BCD only the front weight ditches easily - I have to pull each back pocket individually. It means that an emergency ascent might be a little more controllable but still almost as fast.

I don't know much about the Black Ice but another Scubapro option would be the Knighthawk - it does basically the same thing as a Seahawk but with a 44# bladder. The Seahawk does have more in the way of pockets since it's built around being useful for instructors. Who might be carrying extra weight to hand-off to students - or in the worst case floating them - so that partially explains the higher lift. Which IMO is still excessive.

If you're only going to be traveling to dive in warm water you need much less buoyancy. If Zeagle is an option in your area (service availability?) they're a good choice for back inflate models also - it's all they sell - everything from travel to rescue models. Their Ranger is direct competition for the Knighthawk/Seahawk - I have one and like it a lot.

Understand that what Dan ^ is talking about (Halcyon and DSS) are Backplate/Wing models not conventional back-inflate BCD's like the two you're considering. The primary difference being that they're usually built around a metal backplate with the wing etc. added on. Also the standard design uses pre-sized straps instead of any sort of "jacket". One advantage they have is much less buoyancy that you have to compensate for - a stainless steel plate usually takes 5-6 lbs. out of your weight pockets. If done right you may not need any add-on weight. If really finely tuned - DSS for example has bolt on weights - they're not droppable but don't need to be - if you needed extra weight to compensate for extra buoyancy due to your wetsuit etc. There's also all sorts of weight pockets, shorts etc. available as other options to add ditchable/non-ditchable weight.

 

[oszillodrom]

I mean suck the air out of the wing from the oral inflator

Not recommended, due to risk of infection: Think twice before breathing off a bag - Divernet

I wouldn't have thought of it either if I hadn't read that article.

 

[danvolker]

Not recommended, due to risk of infection: Think twice before breathing off a bag - Divernet

I wouldn't have thought of it either if I hadn't read that article.

You can try to just pull the air out with your mouth, and not inhale.....
Your not "rebreathing" the air in the bag for minutes....regardless of the article, advanced divers doing Hot Drops have been doing this since the BC's first came out.
If you feel your immune system is not up to the task of protecting you from the potential bacteria or mold in a wing, then jury rig some kind of pump that can "pull" the air out of the wing through the inflator. Some of the inflatable Kayak foot pumps have a hose option for "pulling" air out of an inflated kayak...a wing is the same idea.

For a Hot drop, you want to jump in and be 20 feet down in 2 seconds....and on the bottom quickly....floating on the surface like a duck, and gradually releasing air from the BC till it gets heavy, can mean drifting 200 yards Past the shipwreck you want to hit, before you ever get to the bottom....so it means you better like "sand dives"

----

[assertion] "I saw you smoking pot!"..... [answer] ......." But....I didn't inhale "

See a hot drop on a shipwreck, as I am describing....
[video=youtube_share;WAMDnYo3RC0]http://youtu.be/WAMDnYo3RC0[/video]

 

[Crush]

I did my first 40 dives with a back-inflate BCD - a Zeagle Scout. Never had a problem. I have since switched over to a BP&W (which is by definition a back-inflate BCD). If I were to do it all over again I would just start with a BP&W. My only concern for a new diver with a BP&W is that you may need help to set it up the first time, but I am sure that there are videos available online. If you buy a BP&W from a reputable shop they should be able to set it up for you. Take my advice - just go with a single continuous band of webbing (i.e., no quick release buckles) and don't get the padding as it is not necessary.

 

[rongoodman]

The very first piece of dive equipment I bought was a BP/W--the only time time I've ever worn a jacket BC was in OW. I can't see any reason that I'd ever do anything differently.

 

[JohnN]

I did my first 40 dives with a back-inflate BCD - a Zeagle Scout. Never had a problem. I have since switched over to a BP&W (which is by definition a back-inflate BCD). If I were to do it all over again I would just start with a BP&W. My only concern for a new diver with a BP&W is that you may need help to set it up the first time, but I am sure that there are videos available online. If you buy a BP&W from a reputable shop they should be able to set it up for you. Take my advice - just go with a single continuous band of webbing (i.e., no quick release buckles) and don't get the padding as it is not necessary.

+1 Go to a BP/W with a simple one-piece harness You'll be need less lead to sink, you'll save a pile of $$ (particularly compared to a ScubaPro BCD), and you'll never outgrow it (figuratively or literally).

 

[TotDoc]

I think the sooner you migrate to a back inflate style unit, the better off you will be. Even for open water students, I prefer they are in a back inflate style unit. Why? Because it helps promote good position under water - and that is where diving happens. The only benefit from jacket style BCs is it is easier for you to float like a cork on the surface - while not diving. And they make good money for the shops that sell them - while you are at the store and not diving.

I should also mention that if you are properly weighted, the discussion about back inflate BCs having more of a tendency to push you face forward at the surface is also pretty moot.

There is never a time "too early" in your diving career to use equipment that is optimized for the type of diving everyone should be doing - that is, being horizontal and streamlined in the water column. Back inflate style devices do this best...period.

But better yet, skip the whole BC market, and go straight to a BP/W set up. It will cost you less in the long run (and often, even up front if you aren't buying a halcyon unit) to buy the right equipment from the start.