Anybody feel like giving a rundown of back inflate BCDs to a SCUBA noob?

[phlegm]

Hey gang,

I'm new AOW diver with a whopping 28 dives under my belt, all done in warm water in the Philippines. I'm back home in Australia (read: cold water) but haven't dived here yet.

I'd like to continue my training and hopefully get to Instructor level and get work in the industry. I had my heart set on a BP&W setup, and did five or six dives with one (I had immeasurably better trim than with jacket BCDs and really didn't enjoy going back to them), but after talking with a local dive shop they advised that if I wanted to work as a DM or Instructor I couldn't really wear such an obviously different rig to my students. They recommended going the back inflate route.

So, a little reluctantly, here I am. I want something simple, affordable and reliable. I hated having needless clutter around my torso and favour minimalist approaches. Really, as close to BP&W as I can get (a modular system that can grow with my diving is desirable). In warm water I was diving with only 2kg of lead, but of course I've never done cold water diving requiring a 7mm suit so I don't really have a fair idea of the weight I'd need here, so I'm a little uncertain how much lift I require from the bladder. Suffice to say I'll always be diving with as little weight as I can get away with. Single tank only.

I've noticed that a lot of travel BCDs are back-inflate as well as suiting my budget. Is there any significant drawback of this type of BCD over regular back inflate BCDs? I'll probably travel with some gear in the future so lightweight is desirable if there's no compelling argument not to go down that path.

Cheers.

 

[danvolker]

Hey gang,

I'm new AOW diver with a whopping 28 dives under my belt, all done in warm water in the Philippines. I'm back home in Australia (read: cold water) but haven't dived here yet.

I'd like to continue my training and hopefully get to Instructor level and get work in the industry. I had my heart set on a BP&W setup, and did five or six dives with one (I had immeasurably better trim than with jacket BCDs and really didn't enjoy going back to them), but after talking with a local dive shop they advised that if I wanted to work as a DM or Instructor I couldn't really wear such an obviously different rig to my students. They recommended going the back inflate route.

So, a little reluctantly, here I am. I want something simple, affordable and reliable. I hated having needless clutter around my torso and favour minimalist approaches. Really, as close to BP&W as I can get (a modular system that can grow with my diving is desirable). In warm water I was diving with only 2kg of lead, but of course I've never done cold water diving requiring a 7mm suit so I don't really have a fair idea of the weight I'd need here, so I'm a little uncertain how much lift I require from the bladder. Suffice to say I'll always be diving with as little weight as I can get away with. Single tank only.

I've noticed that a lot of travel BCDs are back-inflate as well as suiting my budget. Is there any significant drawback of this type of BCD over regular back inflate BCDs? I'll probably travel with some gear in the future so lightweight is desirable if there's no compelling argument not to go down that path.

Cheers.

First, no matter how much you love diving, I can't help but advise you that you can't be buying gear to be a DM or instructor at this point in your learning curve....Maybe at 500 dives from now.....but the "Zero to Hero" dive instructors that go through the 90 day wonder classes, are typically the "scum" of the bottom of the barrel , of Dive Instructor "Value", to the people needing good dive instruction.
We have seen way too much of this in south florida.

And....number two regarding the "advice" from this "Dive shop"....that sounds like they may see you as a profit center they can sell gear and "Zero to Hero" lessons to, then "own you" as an Indentured Servant ( aka shop dive instructor)....Here in South florida, there are plenty of great shops and good instructors, and plenty of these have DM's, and even instructors that will wear a standard BP/wing.... maybe more DM's than Instructors, but this issue gets driven mostly by the shop wanting its dive pros to be seen wearing the junk that they want to sell to their students.
It is NOT about your not being able to teach from the better platform of the Bp/wing. It's about dive shops trying to sell their inventory to students.

This get's to a contentious position on Scubaboard, as there will be plenty of instructors here that like using Bp/wing, and plenty that like wearing vest style BC's, and this is essentially a religious debate where each side knows that theirs is the only righteous direction for Diving.

If you really like optimal trim and low drag, you will likely be among those faithful to the Bp/Wing gods, and if that's the case, this might be a time to look for a Dive Shop near you that is either more agnostic, or that sells Bp/wings...and teaches with them...Try a search of GUE instructors in your area, they will know what shops would line up for this

 

[RickyF]

Like Dan said, this sounds like a shop that wants it's instructors to model the gear they sell. Go have fun diving right now and find another shop that doesn't require this later after you have more dives.

 

[Crush]

Read danvolker's post.

For my first 50 dives I used a Zeagle Scout rear-inflate BC. Then I switched to a BP&W.

Have fun diving!

 

[diversteve]

How popular is Zeagle in your area?

This one meets most of your requirements and you can switch wings as needed - except they're pretty expensive. Add-on weight systems, extra large pockets are options. You'll need pockets to carry all those things an instructor does most likely, extra weights, o-rings, lights etc.

It will even mount doubles (just not very well IMHO) Express Tech Deluxe



I'd buy what you want for personal diving and worry about that if/when you decide to instruct. Shops that require you to be outfitted in their gear may offer keyman discounts. Also it puts an instructor you're working for as a DM in an awkward spot if you show up in a BP/W while he/she is trying to sell the store's best profit margin leader. The way some skills are taught, it's a diffferent process if you show up in a BP/W, long hose configuration - doff/don is the first that comes to mind. It's hard to physically demo a jacket removal/replacement when you're not in one...The store after all is in business to sell Scuba gear.

I have an instructor friend who dives a BP/W personally and is GUE trained. She also has a jacket BCD that's the store brand where she also primarily teaches SSI classes. I'm pretty sure they gave it to her or at least offered it at what they bought it for. I'm SSI and they're more gear focused than some of the other certification agencies IMO. Also they're owned by Mares now so that may be interesting in the future.

my .02

 

[TSandM]

I dive a backplate and wing with students in OW. Since there are no demonstrations of skill in OW, it really doesn't matter if one dives equipment similar to that used by the students. In the pool. I use an old jacket BC that I ended up with from a Craig's List purchase, but I still use a necklaced backup and a 36" primary hose. Since many students seem to buy Air2 type setups, I think there is nothing wrong with a primary donate rig, and students learn that there are two different ways to set up gear. Nobody seems to get terribly confused.

A shop may tell you that THEY do not permit their instructional staff to dive certain gear, but PADI does not prohibit it at all. Are you in Sydney or Melbourne? I might be able to give you a lead on a shop that wouldn't mind you in a BP&W.

 

[tbone1004]

Couple of options, back inflates are all junk imho. If you need to make the shop happy, buy a Dive Rite Transplate system so you can get a harness that looks like what everyone else is wearing, but still get the stainless steel plate to help sink you in the ocean.

There are a few Dive Rite shops in Oz, I'd recommend going to find one of them, you'll likely be much happier with that crowd. Also, FWIW you should come back to the shop with the argument that switching all of their instructional equipment to BP/W's would save them a considerable amount of money and hassle because they wouldn't have to load all of the students up with as much weight on the weight belt, a SS plate with STA and SS cam bands can take up to 10lbs off of a weight belt, and they would only need as many rigs as there were students with a couple spares because they are infinitely adjustable for body sizes so they wouldn't have to stock as many rental sets.... Just saying

 

[Kairoos]

How popular is Zeagle in your area?

This one meets most of your requirements and you can switch wings as needed - except they're pretty expensive. Add-on weight systems, extra large pockets are options. You'll need pockets to carry all those things an instructor does most likely, extra weights, o-rings, lights etc.

It will even mount doubles (just not very well IMHO) Express Tech Deluxe

View attachment 199735

I'd buy what you want for personal diving and worry about that if/when you decide to instruct. Shops that require you to be outfitted in their gear may offer keyman discounts. Also it puts an instructor you're working for as a DM in an awkward spot if you show up in a BP/W while he/she is trying to sell the store's best profit margin leader. The way some skills are taught, it's a diffferent process if you show up in a BP/W, long hose configuration - doff/don is the first that comes to mind. It's hard to physically demo a jacket removal/replacement when you're not in one...The store after all is in business to sell Scuba gear.

I have an instructor friend who dives a BP/W personally and is GUE trained. She also has a jacket BCD that's the store brand where she also primarily teaches SSI classes. I'm pretty sure they gave it to her or at least offered it at what they bought it for. I'm SSI and they're more gear focused than some of the other certification agencies IMO. Also they're owned by Mares now so that may be interesting in the future.

my .02

I've got an Express Tech (deluxe) and I really like it. I've put some extra d-rings on it (for my pony) and a crotch strap and it's everything I need. I don't dive doubles or anything, or have the need for a larger wing right now than the 24# one it came with.

@op, Get what you feel comfortable with, you'll be the one diving in it, who cares what other people think. Take the advice of the more experienced but ultimately what works for them, might not work for you.

 

[NAM001]

Hi phlegm

You have a good wueation. As for post #2 it is true to the core,,, everything thing he said. So let me start with I AM A BP/W advocate, so you know where i am speeking form. Thats all that I will say about that. What i would advise you to do as far as bp/w vs bcd's is to spend a lot of time looking into what is buoyancy, trim, center of mass and gravity. What is needed for you to tune those factors for your diving. Also look at costs for events of such s you putting on or taking off 30#. Or moving on to doubles later. There is no absolutey right perscription that will fit every diver. I went through many forms of harnesses and backbloards, since my first cert in the 60's. BCD's though most plopular are the exception to the general concepts of devices available over the decades. If i had been a dedicated bcd diver for 40 years i would have gone through 6 perhaps bcds as i would have grown out of them. Had i started with a bp/w i would have gone through perhaps 6 sets of strapping/webbing over the same time. Most of the gear you will buy will remain constant no matter what level of diving you do. My opinion of your choice has no bearing on how well it works for you. My advice is buy not for today but for tomarrow. Buy what you will grow with, and not what you will grow out of.

Good luck

Hey gang,

I'm new AOW diver with a whopping 28 dives under my belt, all done in warm water in the Philippines. I'm back home in Australia (read: cold water) but haven't dived here yet.

I'd like to continue my training and hopefully get to Instructor level and get work in the industry. I had my heart set on a BP&W setup, and did five or six dives with one (I had immeasurably better trim than with jacket BCDs and really didn't enjoy going back to them), but after talking with a local dive shop they advised that if I wanted to work as a DM or Instructor I couldn't really wear such an obviously different rig to my students. They recommended going the back inflate route.

So, a little reluctantly, here I am. I want something simple, affordable and reliable. I hated having needless clutter around my torso and favour minimalist approaches. Really, as close to BP&W as I can get (a modular system that can grow with my diving is desirable). In warm water I was diving with only 2kg of lead, but of course I've never done cold water diving requiring a 7mm suit so I don't really have a fair idea of the weight I'd need here, so I'm a little uncertain how much lift I require from the bladder. Suffice to say I'll always be diving with as little weight as I can get away with. Single tank only.

I've noticed that a lot of travel BCDs are back-inflate as well as suiting my budget. Is there any significant drawback of this type of BCD over regular back inflate BCDs? I'll probably travel with some gear in the future so lightweight is desirable if there's no compelling argument not to go down that path.

Cheers.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba 2]

I agree with many of the above posts. Dive what works for you right now and as you gain experience. When(after a good bit of experience) decide to go pro, well...cross that bridge when you get there. Most instructor friends who teach for shops that require their "type" of gear for teaching just grab a kit out of rental fleet when they are teaching. Anything else is in their own kit. If a shop wants and needs your experience and professionalism, they will work with you and not put strict requirements that they profit from. It should be a mutually beneficial business relationship.