Artefacts on Wrecks

[Ontario Diver]

We know that artefacts on Great Lakes wrecks can last for 100s of years and we know that on ocean wrecks they may last 20 years (thanks KD)

So the question is.....

When is it OK to remove artefacts from wrecks?

Is it OK for a trained Archeologist under permit to remove an object for conservation and display in a museum?

Is it OK for the person who finds the wreck to take a souvenir?

When should items be removed by a non-permitted individual?

[vlada]

Originally Posted by Ontario Diver

We know that artefacts on Great Lakes wrecks can last for 100s of years and we know that on ocean wrecks they may last 20 years (thanks KD)

So the question is.....

When is it OK to remove artefacts from wrecks?

Is it OK for a trained Archeologist under permit to remove an object for conservation and display in a museum?

Is it OK for the person who finds the wreck to take a souvenir?

When should items be removed by a non-permitted individual?

I'd like to add two more:

1. Is it OK for people who find artifacts inside the wrecks to bring them out to the top decks for everyone to see?

2. How do we define atrifacts? Tools, china, etc. would certainly qualify - but what about items that are part of the ship? Like wheel, anchors, figurines

My opinion - it's not OK to remove artifiacts, however, exception should be made for trained archaeologists who remove items to preserve and display. This should only apply to items that you can lift off the wreck w/o cutting, etc - so the wheels, anchors, figurines should stay where they are

While i really liked the museum at Whitefish Point (for those who do not know its history - it started when the group of amature archaeologists stripped the local wrecks of not only artifacts, but wheels, portholes, gauges, etc.), it pained me to see the wheel from Vienna displayed there - the wreck lost a huge part of its personality w/o that wheel. I wish they would at least put the replica down on the wreck

As for my other question about bringing items form inside to the top deck - i like it, since it allows me to take pics of these items w/o spending my time digging. However, at times, the items that others found and brought to the wrecks for everyone to see just disappear

[Kennedydive]

I’m going to give two examples that I’ll make an argument with, both for and against removal of artifacts.

Scenario -1 I know of a diver who was diving on a wrecked oil tanker that sunk in 1970. This diver was doing penetration through out the ship in the 1980’s and back then it was common to strip a wreck of whatever shinny artifacts you could remove. He penetrated into the Captains quarters towards the end of his last dive of the weekend and sitting on the desk was a brass clock. In to the goody bag it went and off he went to the surface.

Two years later he went back to the wreck with the plans of going back into the captain quarters to look inside the desk drawers and to see whatever artifacts he could discover. When they landed on the wreck the area where the Captain quarters was located was gone. The storms and age of the vessel over two years had collapsed the entire superstructure burying and crushing everything inside.

Pro - The delicate item was saved from being crushed and lost forever
Con - The diver who removed the artifact has thrown it in the basement without being restored or preserved. The artifact still has the marine growth on it.

Conclusion – If the artifact has the potential to be lost than it should be removed by someone who knows what they are doing and will properly preserve/restore it. Ideally by an archeologists and placed in a museum for all to enjoy but that comes down to dollars.



Scenario – 2 A wreck in 200 feet of water was sunk by a U-boat in WWII. Some artifacts have been removed from the wreck but in large still have most of her items in place. One of the items is the auxiliary helm. I’ll admit it is pretty to see it in place. To see this you have to get under the stern deck and know where to look. After Hurricane Juan hit the area head on in 2003 the first divers to the wreck noticed that the ship actually shifted from upright on the bottom to about 15% list and then one side had collapsed causing the deck to collapse to an angle of around 35-40 deg.

Pro - We did not destroy the artifact trying to remove it. This was a major concern to those who have looked at removing it. For those who were able to swim by it and new where to look they were able to see it as it stood and pictures where taken of it.
Con - The helm is no more. The ocean has destroyed this artifact and is now lost to everyone except for the pictures that have been taken.

Conclusion - Same as Scenario 1. Unfortunately we were unable to predict that this would happen at 200fsw with no notice.

Jason

[ShakaZulu]

Why would people feel the need to remove these items? I assume there must be some monetary value attached to it. Alternatively, do you really want to add more crap to your display mantel??? It's really annoying to enter a wreck that has been stripped clean..........

[Ontario Diver]

Thanks guys but the question is not black and white....

That is why I asked the key question "When is it ok"