PADI Cavern?

[ae3753]

From looking at past threads, it seems that the PADI course has the same outline as the NSS/CDS and NACD, however I was hoping that someone can provide more detailed information on the course standards and how they compare to other agencies. Does the PADI cavern course limit instructor and student in any way?

Thanks in advance.

-Don

[Bobby F]

Don,
One of the major differences in the PADI cavern course is the requirements to become an instructor. With the other agencies (NACD, NSS-CDS, etc.) you have to go through an instructor examination before becoming an instructor and you have to be full cave certified. With PADI you only have to be intro to cave certed and send in to PADI saying that you have 25 cave dives performed. This means that you can get an instructor with very limited experience in cave diving to provide you cavern training. I have the PADI Cavern Instructor rating and would still suggest that you seek an instructor with a rating from NACD or CDS. Hope this helps.

Bobby

[ppo2_diver]

I have read other post that say if you are seeking further cave training, some instructors and agencies won't accept PADI's cavern cert as a pre-req. Something to ask the cave diving instructors on the board.

DJ

[Tony "D"]

From looking at past threads, it seems that the PADI course has the same outline as the NSS/CDS and NACD, however I was hoping that someone can provide more detailed information on the course standards and how they compare to other agencies. Does the PADI cavern course limit instructor and student in any way?

Thanks in advance.

-Don

Don,
All classes are good. I would have to say as a cave diving instructor evaluator that, it depends on how far you want to go with your overhead enviornment. There is nothing wrong with a PADI cavern cert. I am not a Padi Instructor any longer. However, they do offer a good cavern course meeting all the minimum standards required. If you plan on going into full cave or even intro to cave. I would find an instructor that can teach you from the start to the finish. One that you feel comfortable with. The agency really doesn't matter, it's the instructor. Recommendation would be NACD, NSS-CDS, TDI, IANTD, PDIC etc. Any that has full cave certifications. If you have found a Padi cavern instructor that you feel comfortable with. Then take the course from him/her then move to your cave intro. The cavern class is going to teach you the very basics of overhead enviornment. Lights, safety lines etc. When you go to your cave intro. Your going to go over it again, and more will be added to the tasks you learned in cavern. You'll do more penetration as well and use gas management and much more. It's a step by step learning process. Your cave instructor won't let you go any further until your ready. He/She will know when your ready. I'd say Go For It !! and good luck.

Tony "D"

[Dive-aholic]

PADI's current requirements for cavern instructors are full cave with 20 documented cave dives (may only be cavern dives, actually). The cave agencies do require an instructor course and internship. NACD requires 2 years OW instructor experience with 40 certs. With PADI, you can get it as soon as you get 25 certs or if you take the specialty instructor course. So basically, you can teach PADI cavern a couple of weeks after becoming an instructor.

The answer to your question:

The only difference between PADI and NACD/NSS-CDS, etc (besides possibly the instructor) as far as standards is that you cannot conduct an OOA scenario in the overhead environment with PADI. It must be in open water. My OOA scenarios were done in the overhead.

The main thing to consider is who the instructor is. How often does he cave dive, not just teach? Some NACD instructors are also PADI instructors and can give either cert for the class. I'd look for an NACD or NSS-CDS instructor.

Let us know when your trip to Florida happens.

[ae3753]

Thanks for all the information!

The PADI instructor requirements is indeed quite scary. This reaffirms my fustration/disappointment with PADI. However, I do agree that it's all in the instructor. And fortunately I know that he's an active cave diver and have dove with him before.

As for other agencies not accepting PADI cavern cert, that is concerning as well. Not because I would have to repay for my cavern if I decide to later further my training, but that means that PADI's standards are recognized to be a lot lower.

However, if the only difference is OOA in overhead or OW, then that's not bad at all. Though I would prefer to do OOA drills in overhead as well.

We're actually going to Mexico for the training. This was hard decision given all that we have read about how rigorous the training in Florida is. But since the instructor is key, our cavern instructor of choice is living the Mexico.

Thanks again, and I'll post a trip report when we get back.

-Don

[JimC]

Most NACD/CDS cavern instructors can give you a PADI Cavern card for a few bux after the course.

[Diver Lori]

Don,

My experience with PADI cavern vs the others with regards to continuing ed to intro and beyond isn't so much that PADI is viewed as being less, as it is that the instructor may be viewed as being less.....or simply the TURF wars that are rampant in cave country....both Florida and Mexico. Each agency knocks the other, that's a fact. Pick your instructor, not the agency.

FWIW, my buddy and I, both active cave divers taught PADI Cavern to a family of 3 who didn't initially want anything beyond that. When they decided they were interested in trying Intro, we recommended a few NSS instructors for them to consider. Once they made their choice, we personally contacted the instructor and gave said instructor an overview of what was covered, how they performed, etc.

The class went well and the NSS instructor informed us that we had done a good job AND did not make them start from the beginning after doing a shakedown dive with them.

[ae3753]

Thanks again for all the information. As a point of clarification, we are not interested in specifically picking up a PADI cavern cert. We are interested in getting great cavern training, but our instructor of choice is only PADI cavern cert at this time.

However, he's a great guy, really thorough, and I feel that we would get the best training possible within the PADI standard. It's the "within PADI standard" that concerns me. But based on the feedback here, it seems that you can get great training through a PADI cavern course.

Lori, you do bring up an interesting point that we didn't consider before. While at this moment, we are only interested in cavern, it's not unforseeable that we would like to further our education (we're good at that). For this type of training, we would prefer on instructor for the entire series. I'll have to ask the instructor about this.

Thanks again!

-Don

[karstdvr]

I have nothing really to contribute to the PADI vs other cave agencies discussion. My only comment is when the risk level is increased,such as learning in an overhead environment,seek the most experienced instructor you can find. If your life depends on a thorough class,then you want somebody who can provide this. If the instructor you find fits this and gives you confidence,then sign up with them,even if it could be several months before a class is available.