Interested in becoming cavern certified

[TracyN]

Hi, I live in Florida and am interested in becoming cavern certified. I recently received my AOW certification and most of my non training dives have been in caverns. What is involved in getting cavern certified? I understand that cave diving requires very specialized equipment and training but from what I've experienced in the cavern dives that I've done, they don't seem to require any more specialized equipment than open water. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. The instructors at the dive shop where I got certified are not big on overhead environments so they strongly discouraged me from persuing this certification. Is cavern diving really that dangerous?

[tstormdiver]

To be honest,.... even cavern is MUCH more dangerous without training than with. Loss of visibility from silt outs, or loss of light source (although one of the limitations of cavern is to stay within sight of natural daylight) & even loss of air supply. One of the most important lessons I learned going through cavern (& eventually going on to cave) was to respect the overhead environment. You can not go directly to the surface in an overhead environment. There are also other skills that will be learned. If you are going to dive the caverns, please get the proper training, regardless if your LDS approves or not. In your training, you will learn what the particular risks are, ways to mitigate those risks, proper propulsion techniques & some new skills to increase your safety. The course usually only requires minimal alterations to recreational equipment. You are only a short distance from some of the best cave/ cavern instructors in the world ( in No. FL), many of them can be found right here on SB & in this forum. Carefully interview any potential instructors you are considering, to make sure you find one that best fits your needs & learning styles.

[TSandM]

Well, what specialized equipment you need for cavern diving depends in part on how you view diving in an overhead environment.

At the very least, you need to own and know how to use a reel, and at least one spool. The most basic concept of diving in an overhead environment is that you need to be able to get OUT (anybody can get IN) and OUT may require finding your way there in drastically reduced visibility, or in the dark.

Another characteristic of cavern diving is that in many cases, the surface is not a reasonable option to solve problems. You have to solve whatever issue you have where you are, and that includes gas loss like freeflows or leaks. Therefore, most people believe that you should have some kind of true redundancy. Some agencies teach cavern in a single tank, but I believe they all require an H valve, so that you have two first stages (I could be wrong on this). That still leaves your tank o-ring as a single source of catastrophic failure, but tank o-rings fail pretty rarely during a dive.

A lot of people believe that you should not be diving in any overhead environment bigger than a simple swim-through without true redundancy in the form of double tanks, either backmounted and manifolded, or sidemounted.

Like all diving, diving in the overhead is delightfully simple, right up until it is not. But when you get in trouble in the overhead, you are in very real trouble. Thus the training, and the differences in equipment.

Is it dangerous? Well, the risks are higher than doing 60 foot reef dives. If you are properly trained, properly equipped and have an appropriately respectful approach to what you are doing, the risks may well be acceptable to you. They are to me!

[Doppler]

Hi, I live in Florida and am interested in becoming cavern certified. I recently received my AOW certification and most of my non training dives have been in caverns. What is involved in getting cavern certified? I understand that cave diving requires very specialized equipment and training but from what I've experienced in the cavern dives that I've done, they don't seem to require any more specialized equipment than open water. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. The instructors at the dive shop where I got certified are not big on overhead environments so they strongly discouraged me from pursuing this certification. Is cavern diving really that dangerous?

Tracy: congratulations and best of luck with your progression as a diver. I hope you DO move on to cavern training because chances are very good that you will have fun, and you will certainly get a chance to improve your skills as a diver.

Arguably, the most important second step having identified that you want specialized training is to find an instructor to work with. The following may help. It's a passage from something I wrote for folks just like you...

Questions to ask prospective instructors

Here is a list of ten that may be helpful. You may find this group useful as they are, but way more important is that reading through them may trigger some creative thinking on your part and you will come up with a list of your own. Regardless of which solution you opt to use, do not hesitate to ask questions until you are comfortable with your choice of instructor. But be reasonable. A barrage of questions – especially face-to-face and without any preamble – can be upsetting for even the most even-tempered instructor.

Also consider that if you are not happy with the answers by the time you’ve got to question five or six, chances are the replies to seven, eight, nine and ten are not going to change your mind. If the “interview” is not going in a direction that makes you comfortable or is running off the rails entirely, cut it short and bail out as diplomatically as possible.

Here are my ten top questions:
i. How long have you been {insert CAVE, WRECK, CCR, TRIMIX as appropriate} diving and how many dives of that sort do you make for yourself outside of the training programs you teach?
ii. Do you teach full-time or part-time?
iii. What other programs do you teach besides {Insert CAVE, WRECK etc.}?
iv. What kit configuration do you use and teach your students to use and why?
v. What are the minimum agency standards for this course, and in what ways do your personal standards differ from those?
vi. Do you look for specific changes in student skills and behavior before you sign off on their certifications, and if so, what are they?
vii. How many students did you fail last month, and how many did you pass, and what did the ones who earned a pass do differently?
viii. What should be my primary take away from your course?
ix. What do my fees cover?
x. When was the last training program you took as a student… anything not just dive related?

The acceptable answers for you may be very different to the ones that I am comfortable with. I like to see instructors demonstrate a professional approach to their own personal development, and have real experience and not be a recent graduate from a zero-to-hero bootcamp. Courses for tech certs should exceed agency standards and in particular, instructors should be willing to invest time into a course, and have a specific list of “deliverables” to earn graduation from a course and not something vague and ill-defined. Stay clear of anyone who pretends to know all the answers. Chances are they have a Messiah complex and will attempt to drag you into the vortex too.

Most of all never make a decision about technical training based on price (question nine). It does not follow that the most expensive course will be the best, but I’d lay good odds that the cheapest one has a higher than average potential to be a disappointment.

[Dive-aholic]

Here are a couple of lists of instructors for the cave diving training agencies. The lists comprise all instructors for these agencies, but they do list locations. Most of the Florida instructors teach cavern in the High Springs/Luraville area even if they don't live in that area.

NACD Instructor Listing

NSS-CDS Instructor Listing

[TracyN]

Thanks for the information everyone. It has been very helpful. I will start doing my research because I'm sure this is the specialty I will enjoy the most since I love exploring caves and caverns above the water. :-)

[sskasser]

Thanks for the information everyone. It has been very helpful. I will start doing my research because I'm sure this is the specialty I will enjoy the most since I love exploring caves and caverns above the water. :-)

A dry caver first, yay! You will love it! It's so different and yet the same, and yet different. Go slow, and enjoy!

Shirley

[Doppler]

Thanks for the information everyone. It has been very helpful. I will start doing my research because I'm sure this is the specialty I will enjoy the most since I love exploring caves and caverns above the water. :-)

Tracy: be warned, Since you are already a dry-caver, there is a VERY, VERY strong possibility that your interest in cave diving will NOT stop at Cavern. I see full-cave somewhere in your future... this stuff is addictive... and you seem susceptible!!!


(Have fun )

[loquat149]

Tracy, why does your profile say you've been banned???

On second look, everyone shows up as banned at least on tapatalk...


Dave

[carobinsoniv]

Tracy, if you are in the Branford area tomorrow, stop by Ivey Memorial Park between 10 and 2 for the Great Suwanneee River Clean-up kick-off. There will be a free BBQ and a band. THE NACD will have a booth there and I know several of us would be happy to answer any questions that you may have.

To repeat what others have said, if you want to cavern dive, please take a course. Whether you choose to continue in the overhead environment or not, it will be one of teh best courses you can take. As beautiful as the caverns can be, things can (and have)happen that result in bad endings.