Rec to Cave: Training and Equipment

[Merica]

First of all I am going to apologize for this is going to be quite a loaded question.

This summer I would like to make the transition from rec diving into cave diving. I would like to take cavern and intro to cave diver this summer and then warm up to the more advanced classes once I get some more experience.There are however many questions that I have and they all mainly pertain to the equipment side of things. I am well aware of the equipment required and have researched it heavily. At some point in the training I am sure that i will need to get more heavy cave diving equipment, doubles, and so on and was wondering if i would need all for this for the intro to cave class. Furthermore, will the classes teach me how to use doubles or will i need to take an intro to tech course to be able to use them. I understand that there are a lot of questions here and it would probably be best for me to call a cave diving shop and speak with them however, i do not want them to feel like i am wasting their time.

Along with this will i be presented the option between back mount and side mount training, if so i would rather do sidemount but fear that would require me to do the padi sidemout course or something of that nature before i even started.

Why stop now? I am also aware that a drysuit will most likely be needed and will an instructor feel comfortable taking me on a student with no previous drysuit experience and once again will this require me to throw some more money at padi for the drysuit class.

 

[tbone1004]

you have two very big questions you have to answer first.

Sidemount, or doubles. The trend right now is sidemount, I'd hazard a guess that the majority of classes being taught are sidemount. If you want to go that route, then call Cave Adventurers and talk about doing a combined sidemount and cavern/intro class with them. If you want to learn in twinsets, that's fine. Now, agencies come up and I believe they will all let you go through intro in doubles, and it really is best if you learn in two tanks. With a single you have to have a Y-valve, and at that point doubles are just easier.

Answer the first question first, then we can help you a bit more specifically.

 

[TSandM]

I can only speak for my own cavern and Intro classes, but although we had someone in the class who was new to doubles, no time was spent teaching how to manage double tanks, working on weighting, or teaching valve drills, so I suspect those are things you ought to know coming into the class.

It's my personal opinion that no one should expect to learn, in an overhead class, things which can be learned closer to home, or at least in OW. Good buoyancy, trim, proper non-silting propulsion, valve and S-drills, situational awareness and light communication can all be learned in open water. Coming into a cave class with those things already sorted means you can spend your time and effort on the things which are specific to cave diving -- learning good line running technique and etiquette, practicing emergency procedures such as lost line and lost buddy, doing lights-out work -- if the instructor doesn't have to spend time bringing your basic skills up to cave standard, you can really work on the things which are important in caves.

Cave diving is neither inexpensive nor is it trivial. I would look at classes taken before cavern as a very reasonable investment in your cave diving education, just as you regard the equipment acquisition that way.

And yes, you can do cavern with some agencies in a single tank, although I believe they require an H or Y valve and two first stages.

 

[Merica]

Thank you for the quick replies, i would ideally like to do the intro to cave with doubles, but as TsandM mentioned that is a skill that I should know going into the classes. For the sake of this thread lets just assume that i would be using back mounted doubles. With that being said experience would be quite an asset to have on them before going in to an overhead environment. Would i need an intro to tech or something of that nature or would a dive site let me dive doubles with an AOW cert to get comfortable with them, for example going to ginnie with doubles and doing dives in the ball room or something of that nature.

 

[tbone1004]

depends. You need to do intro to tech if it is worth doing intro to tech. It is very much not worth doing it if you have good mentors that are local to you.

You do mention a preference to sidemount but there is no requirement that you have a sidemount cert prior to the class. If you are a good diver in singles, mainly buoyancy/trim/propulsion, and have an inkling to do sidemount, then call up Cave Adventurers, talk to Edd for a few minutes, and schedule a class with him or Michal. You can rent gear from him while there so you won't need anything other than exposure protection, and they will show you different gear and will obviously be able to sell it to you afterwards. If you want to do it in sidemount, then just do it in sidemount. You'll be better off for it in the long run. Call Edd....

 

[TracyN]

Don't just limit yourself to one instructor or method out there. Check out all options before choosing.

 

[bamafan]

Merica, one thing that might help is knowing where you live and where you intend to do your cave diving.

The next thing is the difference between backmount doubles and sidemount. If you have not been diving sidemount and don't have the gear I would probably recommend backmount. It is a little easier for most people to pick up quicker. There isn't as much stuff to adjust and you don't have to worry about swapping regs to keep yourself balanced. Also a used backplate and wing should be really cheap to get you started. Oh and you can do it in a wetsuit. In the summer it is hot and you will warm up between dives. I would recommend the High Springs area for training in a wetsuit (if you are looking at Florida for training) the water is 3 degrees warmer than Marianna. It doesn't sound like much but it really does make a difference to me. There are lots of good instructors out there. I would ask around and then talk to a few different ones. There are instructors who only teach backmount or sidemount and then there are ones that will teach either way.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Good questions, and being more or less in the same position as you, I don't have the answers. But I subscribed to your thread so I can see what others advise.

What I can say is where I am on my own path. In 2014 I took GUE Fundamentals, which as you probably have heard has some elements of an intro-to-tech course, but I took it in single-tank (what one might call "recreational DIR") configuration. I wasn't really thinking about caves at the time--just improving my diving skills in general. I have spent the past year diving in that configuration, working on my propulsion techniques and trim, making S-Drills and bubble checks part of my routine, etc. On a Mexico trip earlier this year I decided I really enjoyed the cenote caverns, so I signed up for and recently took a Cavern course in this configuration. I have to admit I did not find Cavern as easy as some people (but then again, I had what I consider a very diligent instructor (in case he's reading this, heh heh) who really emphasized time spent in the water). The Cavern course left me with some things to work on, both technically/physically and mentally. I just bought a primary light and will get accustomed to using it. And I am about to pull the trigger on a drysuit purchase. My plan is to spend the second half of the summer doing what I have been doing, only with the drysuit added to the equation, as well as some Cavern practice stuff like reelwork, lights, gas calculations, etc., in open water. I also plan to take a combined drysuit and doubles course this Fall. In the doubles course, I plan to get all the information I need to be able to select a set of doubles suitable for my goals. After that, my goal is to acquire a set of doubles, work with that for a while until I really have my sh*t together, and then seek a so-called "tech upgrade" in Fundies that, if I'm successful, would change my "recreational pass" rating to the "technical pass" needed as a prerequisite for the Cave 1 course. Assuming I reach that goal, then I will probably practice my skills a bit more using the full gear configuration before signing up for Cave 1. GUE's route is a little different from the Cavern-Intro-Full course progression that most other agencies have, but it's my understanding that in the end they all cover pretty much the same ground.

My meandering route seems to be working for me, but I don't know if it's typical. What route you take will depend on what instructors you decide to work with, what training philosophies, agencies, gear configurations, etc., you choose. The route could very well change mid-course, too. I know we have all seen instances in which someone bought all their gear at once, marched off to Mexico and did the whole course progression to full cave in 10 days, but that's not the way I'm doing it. If nothing else, it's a budgetary issue. I just can't afford to buy all the gear at once and all the training at once. And I'm not sure I could pull it off if I were to try to do it that way--I don't think I have the natural talent. For me, what seems to work is to take it one step at a time: Take a course. Acquire a new piece of gear. Practice with my new knowledge and gear. Take another course. Acquire more gear. Practice with it. Etc. As far as the gear is concerned--and I see that was the major focus of your question--I have been using the time to keep an eye out for used gear that comes up for sale. There seems to be plenty of good stuff coming up for sale if you're patient.

 

[tbone1004]

Oh, the GUE fundamentals book I think should be a standard read prior to tech diving. I don't agree with a lot of their principle philosophies, mainly solo diving and sidemount/CCR, but the book is better than most on learning the real fundamentals of good diving.

 

[PfcAJ]

Cave diving ain't cheap. But it also doesn't need to be ridiculously expensive.

The one thing you really shouldn't skimp on is training. 100% gue is the best game in town for that. their methods are proven, the cave instructors are all top notch, and the quality of instruction is second to none.

the gue gear recommendations are solid and work very well for cave diving (obviously) but also work extremely well for ow diving. the gear really can be had for a modest price if you're patient and buy quality used gear.

If nothing else, the gue fundamentals class will give you a solid platform to build off of, regardless of where you end up later in your diving career. Highly recommended!!