Cavern dive instructor recommendations

[Maxpcf]

Hello, hope you're all doing well.

I'm from Florida and was looking to do a cavern course sometime in the near future.

I have read the guides on evaluating potential instructors, but wanted to hear if any of you have firsthand experience with instructors that you would recommend.

Thanks!

 

[tbone1004]

Your first decision is whether you want to learn in sidemount or backmount. If you want to learn in sidemount, there is no better way than by going up to Cave Adventurers and taking sidemount/cavern/intro with Michal or Edd. I do not recommend taking cavern separately as it is extremely limiting and you'll be back very soon for intro. Cave Adventurers is one of the only places where you only have to show up with mask/fins/exposure protection and you can try all of the different gear they have before committing. This is very important in sidemount because all of the rigs are very personal to the diver. Backmount is pretty universal so you don't have to worry about that.

If you want to learn in backmount, then I'd stay in the Ginnie/Peacock area and take it with one of the instructors down there. If you believe in what GUE teaches and want to stay in backmount, then go thru a GUE instructor and take fundies. It's a good course anyway if you want to stay in backmount, but will make you a much better diver.

With cave diving you need to start at the end and work your way back to find your path, then you need to take an honest look at where you are and evaluate what you really need to get there. Cavern/Intro is often described as the hardest course people have taken because they weren't good divers to begin with. They may have thought they were, but they were sadly mistaken. Cave courses are not meant to teach you how to be good divers and the entrances to the caves wear many battle scars because of this. If you want to do sidemount cave, there is literally no reason to start in backmount, whether that sidemount is due to the side of the passages, or any of the other reasons to choose sidemount. If you have only taken OW/AOW from a PADI shop and don't look like any of the number of GUE or real cave videos on Youtube, then you really should take an intro to tech type course, find a mentor, and get your diving skills down first. A cave is not the environment you want to learn how to kick, backup, and control your buoyancy in. For the health of you, and more importantly the long term health of the cave.

 

[Maxpcf]

Thank you very much tbone, great response!

 

[uncfnp]

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/cave-diving/482215-fl-cavern-instructor.html

This was the thread that helped me decide on my cavern instructor. My question is how serious are you about caves? Is this just a curious and want to see a cavern sort of thing or is this the beginning of full cave? That too may guide you choice.

 

[CptTightPants21]

I have heard nothing but good things about Dan Patterson; he works out of Extreme Exposure as there non-GUE tech instructor. His style is not for everyone, but most of my friends have taken cavern/intro with him before getting full cave certified and recommend him endlessly. They would have taken him for full cave, but there were other personal issues that prevented them from doing both.

I'll still interview a few people, but odds are I'll use him for the first half of cave training, and possibly full cave.

I second Tbone's opinion about making sure you are solid in the water with a fundies class or a tech instructor who requires fundies type precision in their intro to tech classes before going into caves.

My issue with GUE cave training is that they are insanely expensive. 2K for just Cave 1 and then another 2K for the Full cert is nuts in my opinion, and the cave classes aren't like Tech 1/2 where you are getting extended range, trimix, AN/DP all rolled up into one course and you can justify the higher prices. I happily pay for quality instruction, but you can get top notch cave instructors who will take you to full cave for half what GUE charges.

Since you are not cave certified yet, how are you with life insurance? It is already a hassle with getting life insurance as a recreational diver, if you are cave certified you are uninsurable with 99% of the insurance companies and the rates you get from that 1% would be astronomical

 

[ucfdiver]

Heather Armstrong and Dan Patterson are both solid instructors.

I hate seeing people take cavern though. In Mexico there's a lot to see, in Florida it's very limiting. Because it's limiting and I believe you learn faster with 4 days of instruction, I would always suggest taking Cavern + Intro together, and if at all possible take Fundies or Intro to Tech before then so you're squared away before you take an overhead class.

My issue with GUE cave training is that they are insanely expensive. 2K for just Cave 1 and then another 2K for the Full cert is nuts in my opinion, and the cave classes aren't like Tech 1/2 where you are getting extended range, trimix, AN/DP all rolled up into one course and you can justify the higher prices. I happily pay for quality instruction, but you can get top notch cave instructors who will take you to full cave for half what GUE charges.

I think you'd really struggle to find equivalent level cave instruction for half price of what GUE offers.

Since you are not cave certified yet, how are you with life insurance? It is already a hassle with getting life insurance as a recreational diver, if you are cave certified you are uninsurable with 99% of the insurance companies and the rates you get from that 1% would be astronomical

Are you sure? I got both life and disability insurance without any issues while cave certified.

 

[RJP]

I have heard nothing but good things about Dan Patterson; he works out of Extreme Exposure as there non-GUE tech instructor.

Seconded.

Not sure what about his style "isn't for everyone" however.

 

[kwinter]

I will just echo a few things that have already been said.

1. Don't just do a cavern class. Combine it with intro cave, or whatever it is called by the agency you are going through. Cavern is too limiting and there is a lot to be learned in intro. But also do not do a zero-to-hero full cave course from scratch. You need practice at the intro level. There's a lot to digest.

2. Decide on sidemount vs backmount before you select an instructor. If you think you might want to learn sidemount especially for caves, then go that route all at once.

3. The life insurance thing is a great idea. Get it now before you are a cave diver and you can be sure of getting the best rate. James may not have been penalized, but that has got to be the exception. I was lucky enough to negotiate being rated one health category higher instead of a risk category. That saved a ton.

4. Cave training will make you a better diver, period. Even if you were a good diver before. And it really helps with wreck diving too.


iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

 

[boulderjohn]

Not sure what about his style "isn't for everyone" however.

You will have a hard time finding a more gentlemanly person on the surface. Anecdotes of his training, however, suggest that his military background comes to the fore during those experiences. He has been praised for being able to curse at students articulately through a regulator, which is great if being cursed at articulately through a regulator fits your learning style. I have been told that he has toned things down in recent years, though.

 

[CptTightPants21]

Heather Armstrong and Dan Patterson are both solid instructors.

I hate seeing people take cavern though. In Mexico there's a lot to see, in Florida it's very limiting. Because it's limiting and I believe you learn faster with 4 days of instruction, I would always suggest taking Cavern + Intro together, and if at all possible take Fundies or Intro to Tech before then so you're squared away before you take an overhead class.


I think you'd really struggle to find equivalent level cave instruction for half price of what GUE offers.


Are you sure? I got both life and disability insurance without any issues while cave certified.

Do you mind going into specifics about your insurance and how you got it. There are some loop holes if you got a smallish policy (usually around 3x annual salary) through an employer where there are no questions asked through the group policy and then converted the group policy to your own personal ownership, but for the most part getting life insurance for a cave diver is extremely difficult. You should definitely check out your policy paper work and the application you signed, they all have questions about dangerous activities (flying, hiking, mountain biking, scuba diving, sky diving, etc) in their policies, if you failed to mention your you were cave certified and one of the questions clearly stated you should have, you would be guilty of fraud and the insurance company can legally deny the claim if you die in a cave.

Here are a few links. I also have some experience in the insurance industry

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/non-diving-related-stuff/429306-life-insurance.html

Insurance...the Life kind???


I am not sure if Dan Patterson's prices have been updated on the website, but his prices of $700 for Cavern/Intro and $900 for App/Full Cave are insanely cheap. Even if he increased them both and you came out to $2000 for full cave that is exactly half. Trace Malinowski (TraceMalin) is another guy whose prices are very reasonable (2K if you split it up, or 1500 if you go zero to hero full cave in 7-8 days) and he has over 30yrs diving experience, technical director for PSAI and an instructor trainer for basically everything.

Seconded.

Not sure what about his style "isn't for everyone" however.

You will have a hard time finding a more gentlemanly person on the surface. Anecdotes of his training, however, suggest that his military background comes to the fore during those experiences. He has been praised for being able to curse at students articulately through a regulator, which is great if being cursed at articulately through a regulator fits your learning style. I have been told that he has toned things down in recent years, though.

^^Basically this, I have also heard he has toned things down, but Dan Patterson has the ability to carry a full conversation underwater with the regulator in his mouth. One person, (lets be honest, a woman) was uncomfortable with Dan's style.