Refillable filter cartridges

[gmass]

We are a company specialising in air purification and have brushed stainless refillable cartidegs in development. More cost effective refill packs of the activated carbon and molecular sieve with felt pads will be sold as well.
Im wanting to get an idea of what interest a product like this would generate as a replacement for the bauer P21 disposable cartridge.

Thank you

 

[ti325v]

Pro diving services in Australia produces pretty much any re packable element you could want, but they are expensive !
See http://www.prodivingservices.com.au/products-page/spares-consumables/repackable-filters-2/
Seems there is a market for this type of product.
I think finding the consumer is the tough part, lots of people seem to be scared of repacks, (small scale users rarely change filters, large scale users likely have liability issues to contend with) I have been doing it for years into plastic inserts that I have made. Never had a bad air test.
People are also a little nuts about keeping molecular sieve around....I store it in glass jars for for years and weigh it before it goes into the jar, and again before I use it. I keep some in the plastic bottles it comes in for over a year, in a hot humid environment and have no problems with it absorbing moisture. Lots of debate can be settled with a simple high resolution scale.
If you make them for the towers I use, (Mako Style 15" and Bauer P-2 (33") I would buy them if the price was reasonable. Prepackaged filters are not available here, all 20 something dive shops here repack, our option is import at extortionate cost.
Great idea if you can make it affordable and find the market.

A quick ebay search came up with this guy selling p-21`s.s inserts in Australia for USD $160..
He also has prepacked refills of M.S. A.C. and felt pads.
P21 Repackable Filter FOR Scuba Dive Diving Compressor Suits Most Small Units | eBay

 

[gmass]

Thank you for your thoughts. We are looking at developing a range of stainless steel cartridges (bauer/coltri), and i will keep you updated on those two towers mentioned. Just to give you an idea, we will be selling the p - 21 refill packs (MS,AC, felt pads) for under 30 Australian dollars (excluding shipping) and will come in air tight containers packed in hermetically sealed foil. No need for concern about air getting to your product regardless of what time it spends on the shelf.

I'll be in touch with further info and prices of the steel cartridges.

Thanks again

---------- Post added January 14th, 2015 at 05:49 PM ----------

My apologies. That price is 39 AUD for 3 refill packs for the p - 21. My mistake

 

[Striker37]

How much will the stainless refillable cartridges be in USA price?

 

[Seahuntjerry]

Thank you for your thoughts. We are looking at developing a range of stainless steel cartridges (bauer/coltri), and i will keep you updated on those two towers mentioned. Just to give you an idea, we will be selling the p - 21 refill packs (MS,AC, felt pads) for under 30 Australian dollars (excluding shipping) and will come in air tight containers packed in hermetically sealed foil. No need for concern about air getting to your product regardless of what time it spends on the shelf.

I'll be in touch with further info and prices of the steel cartridges.

Thanks again

---------- Post added January 14th, 2015 at 05:49 PM ----------

My apologies. That price is 39 AUD for 3 refill packs for the p - 21. My mistake

Hi,
I bought the stainless steel cartridges from Australia it was $400.00 plus about $40.00 shipping.The best use of of my money ever.
I'm sure lots of divers will buy them if you produce them.Bauer sells their plastic cartridge for $40.00 :depressed:

 

[ti325v]

There is a new supplier in Australia, nice guy, (I mentioned before on ebay, is a machinist) even offered to make up some oddball sizes for me.
He sells the p-21 for $160 USD without shipping.
Prodiving services is like $400. the guys at Pro seem really nice as well, but expensive.

 

[scubastevesa]

As the Coltri agent in South Africa -
Ii am very wary of these people who have a lathe and suddenly they want to start supplying the industry
Have their parts been tested and approved to international standards ?
Are the materials that they supply for re packing been tested and approved
Too often in this country i see people taking shortcuts
ie supplying molecular sieve and activated carbon of industrial air grade being marketed as breathing air quality
and then decanting oil and selling it as original equipment

so people - beware of these fly by nights with pirate parts - usage of them in my Coltri machines will invalidate your warranties

and I am probably cheaper than these guys i can be contacted off coltri website in south africa for further help

 

[iain/hsm]

As the Coltri agent in South Africa -
Ii am very wary of these people who have a lathe and suddenly they want to start supplying the industry
Have their parts been tested and approved to international standards ?
Are the materials that they supply for re packing been tested and approved
Too often in this country i see people taking shortcuts
ie supplying molecular sieve and activated carbon of industrial air grade being marketed as breathing air quality
and then decanting oil and selling it as original equipment

so people - beware of these fly by nights with pirate parts - usage of them in my Coltri machines will invalidate your warranties

and I am probably cheaper than these guys i can be contacted off coltri website in south africa for further help

And I'm very wary of Coltri who make oil lubricated compressors for paintball
and suddenly they want to start supply the same pump for the nitrox market.

1.So have the Coltri parts been tested and approved to international standards for oxygen as a percentage greater than 23%.

2. Further define this "molecular sieve and activated carbon of industrial air grade"
against that of breathing air quality.

3. Out of interest to what percentage does Coltri gas test these so called "nitrox" compressor to? over the "claimed" 40% Nitrox percentage?

4. Of this special oil please advise its auto ignition temperature and against that of a standard Coltri air compressor synthetic diester.

5. Please also advise just exactly how the use of a third party filter repack cartridge can invalidate a warranty claim for say a busted 3rd stage piston.

Just askin. Iain

 

[Peter69_56]

There is a new supplier in Australia, nice guy, (I mentioned before on ebay, is a machinist) even offered to make up some oddball sizes for me.
He sells the p-21 for $160 USD without shipping.
Prodiving services is like $400. the guys at Pro seem really nice as well, but expensive.

He offers a good product. I have one of his filters and am getting him to manufacture a stainless repackable filter for my in line filter MCH6 (I double filter all my air).

A good pressure parts engineer is quite capable of manufacturing items to high pressures given their engineering background. Its not rocket science. In any regard, a filter cartridge is not subject to large pressure differences, the housing is but not the cartridge. Replacing a plastic filter body with a stainless steel one is a simple engineering task along with quality fitting and turning. As long as he does quality work, I see no issue. I have however seen poor quality work from compressor manufacturers.

Just because something is priced cheaper than the OEM doesn't mean its therefore of poor quality. Yes I agree it can be, if it seems far too cheap, it probably is bad, but as we all know, many OEM price their spares excessively, thus create a nich market for spares at a reasonable price. My Bauer P21 refills are about $65 AUD here, thus my need for a refillable cartridge. My MCH6 refills were about $35, so if I can get a stainless body made up and repack the costs go way down. And again I say, its not rocket science and the filter body is not subject to pressure, just flow so not a big deal to manufacture. It just has to contain the medium, and seal on the O rings effectively.

Scare mongering to try and maintain market share is an old trick but no longer a valid one. In any regard, how would you know if I used a after market cartridge in your compressor, and how would it damage it? At worst it would provide bad air, my issue not yours? The compressor with the wizzy bits (a technical term for the guts of the machine) are before the filter medium. I agree poor quality oil could cause damage but that's minimal cost if you use synthetic oil and if you use a recommended synthetic oil, regardless of the brand you would be hard pressed in this country anyway to make a case that because one did not use OEM oil, the warranty is invalid. Particularly if one used a recognised brand oil like Shell or such.

Probably cheaper means less than $200 AUD for me for a repackable cartridge P21, so are you cheaper or is this just another tactic to engage a potential customer in conversation before getting them to commit to a sale?

 

[scubastevesa]

Iain

When people start sourcing and filling their own filters with materials sourced from non compliant suppliers
And then putting them in my machines - it is my Brand that people look at with expectations of air quality

Below is a example of things that can go horribly wrong when people do what they want and don't source the correct materials

I was on holiday at this site - running 3 Bauers and a Nitrox Membrane system - i felt the air was not up to standard and asked to see their filters and compressors

Attached you will see a picture of molecular sieve and activated carbon which i pulled out of a machine ( a Bauer with P21 filters - woefully inadequate for the conditions ) which they were repacking - just in layers !! not with the carbon running up the middle and molecular sieve on the outside
They were re - using the sponge pads - not even washing them or putting new ones

The oil !! we drained it and it was completely black ( this was sourced from a Bauer agent - who was decanting Shell oil into a 5 L and writing by hand "Bauer synthetic oil " it may have been breathing air grade oil - Nitrox compatible ?? Clearly not as it was black

I had the most disgusting air ever from this Bauer setup

Its seems you have nothing good to say about Coltri - other than its a Paintball machine pressed into service
( yes we do supply paintball - but the majority of our units end up in the Scuba and Fire markets )
So instead of knocking Coltri - why not put your clearly vast knowledge to educating people out there of correct practices and not encouraging that
they start repacking their filters with dubious materials
At least I know when i send out a machine it has a adequate filtration system specced as standard
And we supply original oil - it is specced for our machines for Nitrox
And when my clients re pack their filters they are using the correct materials sourced from me -

So i ask you ! would you like to breathe off a machine with correct materials and a properly trained operator or someone who is putting in the cheapest materials he can find

My goal is the best quality air out there for all clients - through education and not scaremongering
and i try and keep my materials at the best possible pricing

see the pic of materials from the mentioned site
what should be molecular sieve has been identified as Activated Alumina
and heaven knows what that carbon is ?

and you can make your own deductions as to which is the proper oil