Suunto prices in the USA

[pakman]

Why is there such a huge markup in Suunto dive computers in the states? Is it aqualung as their US distributor that's to blame or the US LDS's? I'm in the market for a new DC and was shopping around here in Hong Kong where I am currently working. Swung by a few LDS here today. The D9 w/ transmitter has been quoted to me around US$980 without even haggling (so even at this quote you figure the LDS is getting a good margin...). Vytec w/ transmitter was US$750. And these are from authorized Suunto dealers. (and best of all no sales taxes in HK ) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall seeing D9's for about US$1,300 and Vytec's for nearly US$900 in the US when I was back for the summer. Seems to be less of a gap in Oceanic and uwatec DC prices. I wonder, how are Suunto prices in Europe or is it only US divers getting gouged?

[mike_s]

Why is there such a huge markup in Suunto dive computers in the states? Is it aqualung as their US distributor that's to blame or the US LDS's? ?

The manufacturer is to blame. In order to become a dealer, as part
of the "dealer agreement", the LDS must agree not to sell or advertise
the price below the "Suunto National Advertised Price Agreement".
They also limit/deny "internet sale".

So Suunto is "forcing" the pricing on the dealers.
But Suunto isn't the only manufacture doing this... (to be fair ...)

However, "pricing seting" agreements by manufacturers are
illiegal by the Sherman Antitrust Act. But mom & pop dive shops
are powerless to fight big companies and if they void the
dealer agreement, then they loose their dealership rights.
So it's "touchy ground" between the LDS and the manufacturers.

Personally, I dont' understand why the dive manufacturers limit
their dealers the way they do. Because they only limit their
sales this way. The economic sales model of consumer purchasing
in the world is changing. If they don't change with it, then
they'll be "left behind".

Example. When I was a kid, I remember going to a TV dealer
with my dad to purchase a TV. Now you can't find a
"traditional TV dealership" any more. The TV dealers,
like many other businesses, got left behind in the changing
economic consumer purchasing system as it changed and
evolved.

[scubatoys]

However, "pricing seting" agreements by manufacturers are
illiegal by the Sherman Antitrust Act. But mom & pop dive shops
are powerless to fight big companies and if they void the
dealer agreement, then they loose their dealership rights.
So it's "touchy ground" between the LDS and the manufacturers.

Vertical price controls are not actually illegal. It is only illegal if the manufacturers conspire to hold prices on like goods up, but for good or bad... what the guys from France are doing here in the US is actually legal.

[Mark Vlahos]

Vertical price controls are not actually illegal. It is only illegal if the manufacturers conspire to hold prices on like goods up, but for good or bad... what the guys from France are doing here in the US is actually legal.

Legal, or not, I wish they would all stop it! Let the market place set the prices. Allow the manufacturers to suggest retail prices, just don't let them set the prices.

I for one am willing to pay a higher price for a product when the purchasing process, and service after purchase, add value to choosing that specific product from that specific retailer. Price, service, and point of sale information are factors in the market place, give the free market a chance.

Mark Vlahos

[pakman]

I am not arguing the legality of it. And Larry is right in that what Suunto/ aqualung or other manufacturers are doing in the states is not illegal per se. What I don't understand is that the same product is being sold in the US for nearly a 30-40% markup vs what it's being sold for in Europe and Asia. Christ, if I was still in the US and I wanted to buy the D9, I would have absolutely no qualms about ordering one from a dealer in Europe or Hong Kong, save myself the $300-$400, and be more than happy to deal with paying $20-30 to ship it fedex back overseas (to be coverd by a legitimate warranty) if it ever needed fixing. In fact you would think people would get smart and take advantage of this price arbitrage until Suunto/ aqualung smartened up. I can understand maybe a 10% price differencial, but 30%+???

I was looking at some of the US ebay auctions lately on various Suunto DC's and people are bidding prices on used models for almost as much as it would cost to get the same model brand new from overseas. it's mad.

[mike_s]

Well. We have two somewhat local Sunnto dealers.

One charges "list price" and never stocks everything so if you want something
he has to order it and also then charges you a 20% special order fee (on
top of list price). Customer service is OK there but they've had issues
in the past.

The other actually is a "stocking dealer", has great customer service and
also offers discounts off list price.

So like Mark, I'm willing to pay more for good service. bit I'm not willing
to be priced goughed for 20% over list price just because a dealer
can't manage his inventory control. Especially when the competition
down the road knocks his socks off on price and service.

[BrianS]

Like it costs him 20% to order it.

[JS1scuba]

My retail store is an authorized Aqualung, Suunto, APEKS, etc dealer. Under our dealer agreement we agree to a retail pricing structure. For that we are able to order products that are always in stock, make products available to consumers with a 100% 30 day statisfaction guarantee, provide Lifetime and Limited Lifetime warranties, etc.

Do I like that I can't sell these products online ? Nope not at all. But I can understand and appreciate the reasons behind it. Do i like that consumers can buy non-usa warrantied units from across the seas ? No, not really. It affects my business and in the end the consumer brings the product back to us for servicing only to find it does not have a warranty which creates some minor friction for some buyers who did not understand the "rules".

As to pricing. An authorized dealer is restricted from advertising prices lower than the manufacturers retail price. I can't put that price on my website, i cant put it in an advertisment, it cant put it on a bill board if it's less than the MRP. IT's designed to create a level playing field for dealers across the nation and in the same markets. If prices are similar then a consumer makes his decision on the individual service they obtain from a dealer and the other benefits made available by that dealer.

What are those benefits ? That depends on the dealer. With me it can be anything from loaner equipment to, try out equipment, to staying open late for a customer, to coming in at off times for them, to fixing a piece of equipment that takes me a moment or to and not charge them for to sharing our expertise outside of a training program. The list can go on.

I had one client who had purchased some regulators from us about 14 mos ago and had them serviced by someone while she was on vacation, paid over $400 for that service only to have them done improperly. I had her send them all back in, we did a complete overhaul with new parts and did not charge her a dime. Why? It's what we do for good clients at times when we need to help make them whole.

When you factor in all the things that are needed to run a professional dive center and the things that are there for you a balance can be struck when it comes to cheap *** pricing and high quality service. Everyone's got to eat.

By the way for three months this year you were able to buy a Vytec for $300 off under an authorized program if you were trading in an old worthless puter or were enrolled in a training class. Do the math if you like. Many people got Vytecs at an incredible price.

Sorry --gotta run -- a client just called my cell phone and needs to pick up some tanks for the weekend.

Cheers ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[fmw625]

JS1scuba, You mentioned advertising below MRP. Does this mean you can't sell below MRP? Maybe a good customer discount or something like that?

[JS1scuba]

JS1scuba, You mentioned advertising below MRP. Does this mean you can't sell below MRP? Maybe a good customer discount or something like that?

There is an acceptable level of movement available.