Gas Pressure Indication Redundancy

[fnfalman]

I personally don't care how people rig their gears. It's their money and it's their lives. I do take affront to people telling me that I gotta rig my gear to their preference. Sorry, but I rig my gears for my diving preference and not for anybody else's. If they don't like it, they don't have to be my buddy or dive in my group.

It's a big planet with a lot of open water.

[cool_hardware52]

I personally don't care how people rig their gears. It's their money and it's their lives. I do take affront to people telling me that I gotta rig my gear to their preference.

Who in this thread stated you have to conform to their preference or stay out of the water?

Tobin

[fdarden]

A failed computer on a recreational dive means that you have to at most sit out the rest of the day. However given that the NDL @ 30' is 250 minutes, I'd be very happy to just make the last dive of the day a nice shallow reef, then start over the next day with a new computer or gauge.

A redundant pressure gauge gets you nothing except a warm fuzzy feeling that you're probably not out of air. You still have to end the dive, but can then start diving again the next day with either tables or another computer, and in any case, should be diving with a buddy who can help you if you do run out.

I've spent years removing useless junk from my rig. I'm not about to add an extra hose and a mechanical gauge just in case my computer fails, especially since it doesn't actually give me any benefit except for a little bit of "warm fuzzy feelings"

Not if only the SPG portion fails, as was my wife's case - the computer itself continued to work fine. It was the HP port on the air intergration that did not work. You should do what you want, but I will NEVER trust an electronic SPG only ever again -
I personally stopped using ANY air integration, sold my Atomic Cobalt, and bought a Shearwater Predator, and never looked back If you want to remove useless junk from your regulator, remove the air integration whip or transmitter and put a plug in the hole in your 1st stage where it existed. Air integration is a patch or "fix" for a MUCH bigger issue, and I hope this does not offend people but - Lack of air management skills. Its more "features" and bells and whistles to be sold to new divers, and justify insane dive computer prices. After you dive for awhile you probably will find the "air management" features annoying, and cut them off. Also, its fun to look at your consumption on your dive logs for the first 10 dives or so, but beyond that its a gimmick. My opinion comes from owning one. I too thought I could not live without air management as a "safety" or "data collection point". What I found was using it was a crutch that was keeping me from learning more about my diving. I was plain being lazy, and trying to use technology to patch over my lack of skills.

Bear in mind an HP port failing will not drain your tank in minutes.. Generally speaking an HP port failure emits tiny bubbles, and you should have plenty of time to abort the dive. Know your SAC rate, think in atmospheres and you wont need this junk in the first place. if you do use an analog SPG, its a good idea to make sure that you keep the pressure pin well lubricated with some O2 compatible grease.

[t-mac]

Air integration is a patch or "fix" for a MUCH bigger issue, and I hope this does not offend people but - Lack of air management skills. Its more "features" and bells and whistles to be sold to new divers, and justify insane dive computer prices.

Certainly some truth here, but I think it is unfair to suggest that people who dive with AI are all lazy or have poor air management skills. The same criticisms apply to computers in general. I suspect many, many divers fail to do even basic planning because their computers will tell them everything. Computers make for lazy divers and they erode dive planning skills.

I find the argument that you are adding something that creates a new potential point of failure much more compelling than the "AI makes you a lazy diver" one. I use AI, not because I am a lazy diver, but because I am a data junkie. That probably does not improve my diving in any meaningful way and it does create a potential failure point some people may choose to avoid, but it's up to me to manage the risk I am creating to within my own personal tolerances. Yes, I carry an spg too and a backup non-AI computer.

I remember when the common wisdom in buying a car was to avoid the power windows. Cranks work fine and are much less likely to fail (and I suppose electric makes us lazy too). Sounds familiar. Now its almost impossible to find window cranks in a modern car and I can't remember when I last heard of power windows failing. Technology gets more reliable over time and certainly AI is still a growing trend.

[gcbryan]

For all of those people who have a wireless transmitter, I hope you have an SPG installed too.

For all of those people who have air integrated computers hooked up to you HP port, I hope you have an SPG installed.

These are 2 examples of why dives get cut short when diving as a group. The 2nd one just happened tonight. Nothing like being in another country and have to cut your dive short because of someone else's equipment problem.

What is the point of a post hoping that people have what you would like for them to have?

I hope that you agree with my post.

[scubadada]

AI computer (Oceanic VT3) without a SPG backup, I guess I will have to ascend if I have a dysfunction. Luckily, after 162 dives, not even a minor problem. I'd gladly match my gas management skillls against any of of you using an SPG. Exactly what do you think is your advantage?

Good diving, Craig

[jar546]

I think many of you missed the point and took this to another level.

Many dive operators have rules. No functioning gas indication, no diving. Real simple. An analog SPG in addition to an AI computer or wireless transmitter makes sense if you want to still be able to dive, unless you want to sit on the boat for 2 hours while everyone else dives. Quite simple.

If you don't like to dive on a boat with rules like that then don't. If you don't want to add an SPG, then don't. It just seems as though many of you like to argue just for the sake of arguing. Many of us will never, ever dive together and after seeing the attitude of some of you, I would not want to dive with you under any circumstances, nor would I ever want to even sit down and have a beer. Some people just don't like to be told what to do and are defensive that way. No one is telling you what to do. So continue on your tirade if that what makes you feel good about yourself, if that what it takes.

What I know is this:

*My transmitter failed between dives and because I had an SPG, I was allowed to continue on my boat dive under the operator's rules. If I had no SPG, then I would have missed my dive(s) and when you pay to travel to a far away place, one does not need to sit on a boat while everyone else dives. You can argue about your gas planning but that won't change the mind of the operator.

*I was on a group night dive lead by a shop from shore and one of the participants had a failure of their AI digital computer. We all had to terminate the dive. If the diver had a backup SPG, we could have continued but instead it affected my diving.

If you want to argue clutter and failure points, no problem, I see and understand your opinion, it makes sense. Clutter is a relevant term anyway, subjective.

So go ahead and plan your gas, which I guess includes all of the variables that can happen during a dive and don't have the ability to monitor your gas. No problem, or actually just your problem.

---------- Post added ----------

AI computer (Oceanic VT3) without a SPG backup, I guess I will have to ascend if I have a dysfunction. Luckily, after 162 dives, not even a minor problem. I'd gladly match my gas management skillls against any of of you using an SPG. Exactly what do you think is your advantage?

Good diving, Craig

The advantage is not having to ascend if you have a dysfunction. It may not be a big deal at Dutch Springs, but it is if you are on the beginning of a trip on a live aboard.

[IanBrit]

Air integration is a patch or "fix" for a MUCH bigger issue, and I hope this does not offend people but - Lack of air management skills.

Expanding on this logic, I guess you don't dive with any form of SPG, electronic or mechanical. I don't see what's lazy in a quick glance at my wrist mounted pressure reading rather than a glance down at the spg that's clipped off to my chest (Yes, I use both, plus all my stages have small SPGs on them for a final check before leaping off a boat). I'm assuming you mean AI in as much as a diver relying on the computer alone to tell them their remaining bottom time but don't go making sweeping statements on the integration being a crutch.

[mala]

poor gas management is extremely common-usually it just leads to inconvienence for other divers but occasionally the consequences are much more serious.

do whatever works for you.
to have both wireless and an spg sounds sensible to me if you only have 1 cylinder.

[flots am]

The advantage is not having to ascend if you have a dysfunction. It may not be a big deal at Dutch Springs, but it is if you are on the beginning of a trip on a live aboard.

Why?

You know roughly how long you've been down because your buddy knows how long he's been down, and you know the maximum depth because your buddy knows the maximum depth. If your computer dies on your first dive of the day, you can assume a square profile, run it on your dive tables and continue on tables for the second dive.

The next day, you can switch to a new computer or continue on with tables.

If it dies in the middle of the day, you get to go take a nap and relax. Tomorrow is another day.

People are making way too much out of the possibility of a computer failure.

In fact, anything you bring with you can fail. On a recreational no-deco dive, it's simply not a big deal.

flots.