Planning No-deco dives with deco software

[KentFrazier]

Moderator: If this is the wrong forum for this post please move it.

I’ve done a search, but I have been unable to find what I’m looking for. If anyone knows of a thread please post a link, thanks.

My current diving is limited to recreational NDL mostly in freshwater lakes. I currently use the PADI RDP and on occasion, The Wheel.

I would like to learn how to use the currently available deco software like V-Planner and I was wondering if there was a way to use these for NDL air dives. I have downloaded V-Planner and the free version of GAP, but have not “played” with them yet. Are there any good tutorials for either version and will either work for planning NDL air dives?

Thanks,

Kent

 

[cornfed]

There was some talk about it on TSS,

http://www.thescubastop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=693

 

[MechDiver]

I would like to learn how to use the currently available deco software like V-Planner and I was wondering if there was a way to use these for NDL air dives. I have downloaded V-Planner and the free version of GAP, but have not “played” with them yet. Are there any good tutorials for either version and will either work for planning NDL air dives?

Thanks,

Kent

There are no tutorials for either that I am aware of, as they both assume you know pretty much what you want the program to do before using it.

I also don't think you'll get any output from either program for an NDL dive. Could be wrong, as I haven't tried, but the whole premise of both programs is generating a deco profile. If you have no deco, then I would not expect an output as it would be just like using a table.

That is not to say you couldn't make something up for a deco dive, but without the training to know what you want to get, I don't think the profiles would be very meaningful to you.

GAP is also a hard program to grasp. It is all based on how the templates are setup and there is little to guide you in how to do that. Again, the training and knowing what information you need is not there.

MD

 

[matt_unique]

Moderator: If this is the wrong forum for this post please move it.

I’ve done a search, but I have been unable to find what I’m looking for. If anyone knows of a thread please post a link, thanks.

My current diving is limited to recreational NDL mostly in freshwater lakes. I currently use the PADI RDP and on occasion, The Wheel.

I would like to learn how to use the currently available deco software like V-Planner and I was wondering if there was a way to use these for NDL air dives. I have downloaded V-Planner and the free version of GAP, but have not “played” with them yet. Are there any good tutorials for either version and will either work for planning NDL air dives?

Thanks,

Kent

You can use V-Planner to produce NDL dive profiles. It is useful in terms of the output for anticipated air used, 02 exposure, etc. There are no detailed tutorials because as pointed out above V-Planner expects users who are trained in deco procedures.

--Matt

 

[KentFrazier]

Thanks for the quick replies. I've read the thread that cornfed posted, that helped.

I guess for now I'll just keep using my tables. I've yet to buy a dive computer and I'm not really convinced I want one.

Kent.

 

[ShakaZulu]

V-Planner 3.43 by R. Hemingway, VPM code by Erik C. Baker.

Decompression model: VPM-B

DIVE PLAN
Surface interval = 0 day 1 hr 0 min.
Elevation = 0ft
Conservatism = + 2

Dec to 100ft (2) on Air, 50ft/min descent.
Level 100ft 18:00 (20) on Air, 0.85 ppO2, 100ft ead
Asc to 30ft (22) on Air, -30ft/min ascent.
Stop at 30ft 0:40 (23) on Air, 0.40 ppO2, 30ft ead
Stop at 20ft 3:00 (26) on Air, 0.34 ppO2, 20ft ead
Stop at 10ft 6:00 (32) on Air, 0.27 ppO2, 10ft ead
Asc to sfc. (32) on Air, -30ft/min ascent.

Off gassing starts at 68.6ft

OTU's this dive: 15
CNS Total: 5.1%

67.8 cu ft Air
67.8 cu ft TOTAL

V-Planner is more conservative.............

 

[DA Aquamaster]

In addition to Palm VPM I use DPlan as well on my PDA. It is a payware program ($59.00) but the interface is easier to use.

V-planner/Palm VPM and DPlan all work fine with air and for dives within normal NDL's. But one thing with both VPM (variable permeability model) or DPlan (using a bubble gradient model) that I have noticed is that there seldom any such thing as a "no deco dive". The dive has to be very short or shallow to not call for a stop of some sort so consequently many dives well inside the more traditional no deco limits will ask for a stop or two.

For example DPlan suggests a 1 minute stop at 20 ft and a 1 minute stop at 10 ft for a 20 minute dive to 60 ft where a normal table would indicate that a direct ascent to the surface is fine.

The good news when doing dive profiles within "normal" no deco limits with VPM or DPlan is that you will feel better after repetitive dives over repetitive days and it will also get you accustomed to making slow ascents, "deco" stops and for developing a feel for the shape of a safe ascent profile. This leaves you in a good position to advance to more demanding deco dives when you are properly trained and equipped.

 

[ScubaDadMiami]

Couple of suggestions: First, get more training. That being said, if you don't understand the software or what to do with it, don't go by it.

Next, try running some profiles and comparing them to your tables for a while. Start checking against second and third (or however many you do) dives in a series. Typically, you will see that the software, if not intentionally or otherwise set to strange settings, will yield somewhat more conservative profiles. Since the software will typically allow for less bottom time than tables for the same profile, it certainly won't hurt to go by the software once you get the hang of it.

If you are a non-deco (yes, I know all dives are deco dives :11: ) type diver, then don't do any dives that require it. Just 'cause you can make the software work doesn't mean you can do what it says without the training.

Once you get to this stage, you can start to dive the profiles of the software. Most people notice that they feel less fatigue and better after following these more conservative profiles (again assuming that you are not doing something intentionally just to do something stupid--you are a trained diver, aren't you?). By the way, guess what that tired feeling is after table diving? It is likely "subclinical" DCS, those tiny bubbles at work.

Go back and think about the patterns that the software gives you. Everything will start to click.

I have been using V-Planner for about a year and a half after diving Navy tables (with my own personal fudge factors built in) for years. You will get it after a while.

 

[cornfed]

V-Planner is more conservative.............

Well you did set the conservatism to +2...

 

[Spectre]

Well you did set the conservatism to +2...

I was just about to point that out; and VPM-B.

VPM with 0 conservatism gives you about the same as a padi table..

---------------
V-Planner 3.43 by R. Hemingway, VPM code by Erik C. Baker.

Decompression model: VPM

DIVE PLAN
Surface interval = 0 day 1 hr 0 min.
Elevation = 0ft
Conservatism = Nominal

Dec to 100ft (2) on Air, 50ft/min descent.
Level 100ft 18:00 (20) on Air, 0.85 ppO2, 100ft ead
Asc to 20ft (22) on Air, -30ft/min ascent.
Stop at 20ft 5:20 (28) on Air, 0.34 ppO2, 20ft ead
Asc to sfc. (28) on Air, -30ft/min ascent.

Off gassing starts at 68.6ft

OTU's this dive: 15
CNS Total: 5.1%