Any Liquid fit owners out there??

[Warhammer]

Dilema....I have a brand spanking new Liquidfit Platinum 3mm full wetsuit, same in a 3mm sleeveless shorty, and same in a 6mm bibbed hood. Great fit on everything except the hood, which will be fixed after my trip next weekend. Trouble is I have yet to dive either of these and I as said I have a trip planned next weekend. So I decided to determine their bouyancy by sinking them in the tub. WOW! The 3mm full required 12lbs to get neutral, the shorty took 7lbs, and the hood is neutral somewhere between 2 & 3lbs, 2 floats and 3 puts it on the bottom. That comes to a whooping 22lbs of extra weight needed to submerge with these suits/hood in tow. Add that to my normal swimsuit weight required for freshwater of 8lbs(4lbs + 4lbs to offset AL80 @500PSI) and that makes me require 30lbs. Then add another 6lbs for saltwater and I now have a grand total of 36lbs of lead! That seems astronomical to me, what do you guys think? Was my experiment with the suits about right or flawed? I did my best to get all the air bubbles out of them during the test. Is this typical of new suits? These are my first new suits, so I expected somewhat more bouyancy, but didn't think it would be this much.

To complicate things further, I was informed today that we would be diving Panama City first then move to the fresh springs on Sunday. The original plan was right the opposite and I was planning on getting my weight right in the calm waters of the springs. Doing this in 3 to 4 foot seas is going to be very difficult, so I'd like to be very close to start with. Worse case senario, I could always use the anchor line, which I plan on doing anyway. But you never know what will happen, so I'd rather be weigthed correctly.

My BC's intergrated weight system can handle 40lbs, but me thinks it would be wise to split this much weight up between it and a belt. What do you think?

 

[Aegir]

WH i cant really help you on that one but i will have a guess. The buoyancy characteristics of a wetsuit are probably very different when not worn on the body along with scuba gear. I would think that your body and gear would add a little weight to the suit. Are you saying that you wear the 3mm full AND the shortie together? By the way WH what BC do you own.

 

[turnerjd]

Originally posted by Warhammer

The 3mm full required 12lbs to get neutral,
the hood is neutral somewhere between 2 & 3lbs, 2 floats

surely this is 14 Lbs extra?
Your not wearing a shortie *and* the full suit are you?

Originally posted by Warhammer

and 3 puts it on the bottom. That comes to a whooping 22lbs of extra weight needed to submerge with these suits/hood in tow. Add that to my normal swimsuit weight required for freshwater of 8lbs(4lbs + 4lbs to offset AL80 @500PSI) and that makes me require 30lbs. Then add another 6lbs for saltwater and I now have a grand total of 36lbs of lead!

I have a 6 or7 mm neoprene dry suit, than only needs 28! - but I use a steel tank - NOT positively buoyant at end of dive

That seems astronomical to me, what do you guys think? Was my experiment with the suits about right or flawed? I did my best to get all the air bubbles out of them during the test. Is this typical of new suits? These are my first new suits, so I expected somewhat more bouyancy, but didn't think it would be this much.

I suspect that it was fundamentally flawed. there was probably quite a lot of air trapped in the suit if you scrunched it up and put a weightbelt round it - this will screw things up a bit.

Also, use the numbers for the full suit only, 'cos surely you aren't using both at the same time?

Typically I need 6 Lbs for my 3mm full suit I use in the pool, which would probably be 8 or so in the sea. - but this is to make me noticibly negative for DMing open water classes. 36 Lbs not just seems excessive, but I suspect that your BCD would start having fits, and difficulty holding you up. some BCD's have as little as 20Lbs lift.

If you normally need 8Lbs without a suit, I would start with somewhere around the 16 Lbs mark, BUT in my experience, a full 5mm semi-dry uses about this, my guess from experience would be about 10 or so, but then add on about 4 for the Al tank = 14Lbs.

Have you used a 3mm full suit before? - If you have start - with 4 or so more from the weight you used with that. New suits ARE more buoyant, but never that much - 2 or 4 Lbs at the most.

Hope this helps

Jon T

 

[JoelW]

There is something a bit goofed about the numbers. I wear 28# with a 6.5mm 2-piece and an AL80 tank and I am not a small person (6',220#). I would have bet on a number around 15#. One way to get some better numbers is if you have access to a local pool. Take the suits, a bunch of weight and your swimsuit. Leave the rest of the gear at home since you want to know the variation between suits. Test the swimsuit first to see how heavy you feel on the bottom with your normal weights(in water shallow enough to stand in) and then try to get the same feel with the suits and more weight. I am assuming that with the 8# and a swimsuit you will sink to the bottom. If you have a buddy and a fish scale you can improve the numbers (tie a line to the scale and have the buddy pull up on the scale while you hold the other end and see what load is required to pull you up off the bottom). It won't be perfect, but it will give a start that is better than the numbers you are getting from the tub.

JoelW

 

[Warhammer]

The suits are a combo. The sleeveless shorty zips out the thigh and can be worn over the full, that's the design. They can also be wore independantly. That's one reason I went this route, most of my diving will be in warm water, where I'll wear either or, not both. But this trip, the temps are expected to be in the low 60s in the gulf, so I'll be wearing both suits and the hood. That gives me 6mm on all the extremities and should be fine, since I can comfortably dive in 75 degree water in a swimsuit.

I'm 225-230lbs, depending on the time of day , and 6'1". I usually wear 14lbs for salt-water and no wetsuit, and that is about right. So add that to the 22lbs of wetsuit bouyancy and you get 36lbs.

To test the suits, I put the suits in the tub, got them wet, then folded them up while submerged, getting all the air out as I went (or tried too). Then I applied certified weights (I'm in the weights and measures business) to the suits until they were neutral. Then pushed them to the bottom of the tub and worked them some more to get all the air out and adjusted the weights as needed. But it's possible that some air remained.

turnerjd wrote:
but I suspect that your BCD would start having fits, and difficulty holding you up. some BCD's have as little as 20Lbs lift.

I have a Zeagle Ranger and it has 44lbs of lift, so it shouldn't act up.

turnerjd wrote:
Have you used a 3mm full suit before? - If you have start - with 4 or so more from the weight you used with that. New suits ARE more buoyant, but never that much - 2 or 4 Lbs at the most.

Yes, but not a new one. Keep in mind these aren't your average discount "off the rack suit". I was told by the manufactor to expect more bouyancy from these than off the rack suits, due to the quality of the neoprene. But I wasn't expecting this much.

aegir wrote:
The buoyancy characteristics of a wetsuit are probably very different when not worn on the body along with scuba gear. I would think that your body and gear would add a little weight to the suit.

How so? In a pool, in a swim suit just swimming with no gear, there is no way that I can get down and stay there. Hince I'm positive bouyant without any gear to the tune of 4lbs. So how would me wearing the suits have any effect except to add 4 more lbs of bouyancy?

JoelW wrote:
One way to get some better numbers is if you have access to a local pool.

I've searched high and low for a pool, non are available. Any that are are outside pools that are covered for the winter and I suspect they'd be very cold now. The local shop doesn't teach classes here in the winter for that reason, no pool access. But just maybe i can get away from here early enough next week to get in a pool in PC.

Thanks for the help, guys.

 

[Dee]

I'll be using it for the first time this weekend, too! I did have a chance to get in the pool with it, though.

I normally use 6# in fresh water with only my swimsuit and a HP65 steel tank. With both pieces of my LF suit, I needed 17#. I'll round that out to 20# to allow for an Alum80 tank if I have to use one. I'm no skinny-minnie either!

Warning Warhammer...that suit sticks to you like glue! So don't think you're going to adjust it a bit once you get it on...you aren't gonna be able to. On the other hand, I was in the pool for almost 2 hours and my swimsuit never got wet! I have ankle and wrist zippers in the suit and I got wet up to my elbows, almost up to my knees and just a bit around the collar. Since I was in a heated pool, I just about burned up but I'm sure it will be fine for the 52 degrees I'm looking at this weekend.

HTH
Dee

 

[Warhammer]

That shoots a few holes in my theory. Guess I'm just going to have to uncover a pool somewhere and take a short plunge in :cold: water to settle this. Man I dread that.

As to my last question on splitting the weights up between the BC and a weight belt, what do you guys think about that? What's your cutoff point on all your weights being in 1 ditchable system?

 

[gozumutti]

Um...I know I am new at this and not knowledgable at all, but I did want to note that the Divemaster I was diving with some weeks back also wore a full suit with a shorty over it. She said lots of folk do it.

gozumutti

 

[Dee]

Beast does this often. He dives the winter temps here in a 2pc 7mm suit. He needs 34# of weights. He'll put 14# on a belt and 20# in his BC. He's tried other combinations but has settled on the 14/20 split as his preference. The 2pc 3mm 20# in fresh water. The saltwater trip I take don't require a wetsuit at all for me.

The only time I've split my weights is when DM'ing in the pool. As I mentioned earlier, I'm a floatie! So anytime I have to demo weight belt and BC removal skills underwater, I split my weights evenly 10/10. This allows me to demo the skill while still retaining control of my body.

When moving/carrying my BC will all the weights in it, I've often wished I had part of them somewhere else!

 

[Warhammer]

I here you on the floatie part. It does have it's advantages though. I've sleep for hours on my back floating around in a pool without ever getting the top of my head wet.

I resunk the suits a while ago this time using one of Don's 55 gallon feed drums. This time I came up with 10lbs on the full, 7lbs on the shorty, and between 2 & 3 on the hood.