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Thread: Diver missing today? 03/28/12

 


  1. #81
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    DandyDon's Avatar
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    We often tell newer divers that it's good to hire a private DM for their first Coz divers, but I doubt the cruise ships ever suggest that.
    suprane likes this.
    You can test the tanks you breathe or - dive on hope.
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  2. #82
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    Just to keep things in perspective when analyzing a source, let's look at this sentence:

    as it comes to me via an acquaintance who heard it from his friend who works for the dive operation.

    At the best, it is 4th hand information: 1) someone heard it from a 2) friend who heard it from 3) someone in the dive operation who heard it from ???) [I don't know how many steps until you get to the DM].

    How many details could have been misunderstood in that chain?
    John Adsit
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by kschoonover View Post
    I personally don't blame the DM or anyone for what happened, I just want her to be found.
    My prayers are with you on that. Please don't take any of my comments as any reflection on this incident. I don't know what happened here and I know nothing about this dive master. I was speaking generally on my thoughts on Coz DMs and the good care they give their divers.
    In the air to Cozumel in (imagine a counter counting down to September 15th.)

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  4. #84
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    knows better, but that has
    not stopped him yet.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy43068 View Post
    So you place blame on the DM for this? Seems that's what you're saying.
    If the DM is responsible as you seem to suggest then they should require a skills test before the dive. It's only fair.
    My placing at least a share of the responsibility on the DM was based on the accounts as they were being discussed, at that time. A DM shepherding a flock of new divers does have responsibility for monitoring and overseeing the safety of the divers he has under his care. He is not just a tour guide in such circumstance, IMO.
    Obviously, if some of the info that is coming in now is true, it would effect that entire concept of any failure of responsibility, and point to an accident he may have had no way of monitoring.

    If, as the family is saying above, the DM was notified of the diver's ascent by her buddy (husband), who then also made his ascent, the DM would be in effect releasing the buddy pair. That is a very different scenario from the DM losing track of one of his charges completely.

    Very different.

    Quote Originally Posted by kschoonover View Post
    She was with her husband. She told her husband she needed to go to the surface. Her husband let the instructor know then headed up himself but when he reached the surface he couldn't find her. The current was part of the problem.
    This points out how early reports are so often incorrect, and much of the discussion as we have been having here, before the true facts are known, is pure speculation. We are all wishing for the best outcome, and hoping to use any of these scares to learn/teach/inform each other, to improve the safety of our sport for all.

    Quote Originally Posted by logansar View Post
    Is the normal current north to south or south to north.... Trying to picture it....

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    Quote Originally Posted by kschoonover View Post
    She was buddied up with her husband not a stranger. She told her husband she needed to go to the surface. Her husband let the DM know then headed up himself but when he reached the surface he couldn't find her. The current was part of the problem. They did inform the DM she needed to go up.And they bought most of their gear so none of these assumptions are actually true.
    We wish her, and your family the very best outcome.


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    We have been diving Coz all week and the currents are unpredictable day to day. We were diving just north of Santa Rosa Wall on that day of the incident and our dive boat was involved in picking up some of the divers from the boat involved in the incident. It was definetly an eye opener about how easy a dive can turn bad in a moment. We were able to help 3 divers out of the water to wait for their boat to pick them up, but there was a big distance between the groups. This week the deep currents have been strong and I would advise to stay shallow unless you are an expert at strong current drift dives, if it is new to you, STAY SHALLOW. Our thoughts are with the divers loved ones and with all the dive community, we all are one.
    Jax and rkfatheree like this.

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    I, too, am wishing the diver's friends and family the very best outcome. Being a retired army vet may well give her an important advantage in this situation.

    Unfortunately, we may never know exactly what actually happened in this (or any other traumatic) situation. Everyone sees events from a different perspective. Everyone remembers and interprets events differently.

    I was on a cert dive with a friend several years ago. I was accompanying her on her first open water dive. Another diver in the party panicked and attempted to surface by herself. Our DM instructed us to hover below as he followed her to make sure she was safely back on the boat. I was incredulous upon hearing her account of the incident afterward ... an incident that I observed from beginning to end while hovering 30' below her. The diver simply didn't remember any of her panicked behaviors afterward.

    As we hear various different accounts of this tragedy, we need to remember that our minds play tricks on us. Especially in emergencies.

    I appreciate the efforts everyone is making to understand what went wrong in this situation. I have personally experienced flukey currents on Santa Rosa wall and elsewhere in Cozumel. I have also been with friends and family who have had to surface due to ear problems. I can easily envision that combination being deadly. Imagining that this diver could have been one of my loved ones simply breaks my heart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    For you medical professionals, could this be something like valvular regurgitation?
    Yes. That is consistent with what she is describing.
    Don't mess with old guys... Age and skill will always overcome youth and treachery! BS and brilliance only come with age and experience.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by boulderjohn View Post
    Just to keep things in perspective when analyzing a source, let's look at this sentence:

    as it comes to me via an acquaintance who heard it from his friend who works for the dive operation.

    At the best, it is 4th hand information: 1) someone heard it from a 2) friend who heard it from 3) someone in the dive operation who heard it from ???) [I don't know how many steps until you get to the DM].

    How many details could have been misunderstood in that chain?

    That's why I spelled it out - so people would weigh the value of my information given how I got it. I don't want anyone taking my story as gospel, because there's too much room for misunderstanding or (mis)interpretation. And the story I heard certainly makes the DM look less culpable, which could be due to the source.

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    Diving with a private DM is an excellent idea, particularly in Cozumel. Drift diving in Coz is fabulous, but as you can see from this thread it can also be unpredictable and unexpectedly dangerous.

    Dive masters are our first line of defense between life and death. If you can afford to dive, you can afford a private DM.

    It's a better experience for everyone involved and you are also supporting the local dive economy. Just do it!
    JG109 likes this.

  10. #90
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    I'm just not seeing culpable anything.

    A buddy pair says they are going up. In the time it takes to tell the DM, to the time he made the surface, our lady disappeared.

    [speculation]

    Could there have been another medical problem? Heart Attack; or Immursion Pulmonary Edmea, or a mitral valve prolapse incident. Those few seconds, when eye contact was lost, led to her becoming lost.

    [/speculations]


    Some lessons learned - carry a Surface Marker Buoy, and know how to use it. Carry a signal mirror, and know how to use it. Carry a real audio alert device (vice the whistle on BCs).
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