BP/W Questions

[Spg01]

I currently dive:
7mm full suit (hood/gloves/booties)
Ranger BCD
Steel hp100 (1 PST and 1XS)
24Lbs weight integrated - 16 in waist pockets and 8 in tank trim pockets
Frog Fins
6'0 Tall
245-250 lbs

Thinking about a dry suit, but that is down the road at some point??

If I need additional weight on the plate is the only option your bolt on plates?

Would the rig be able to be used in warm water vacation diving? (3 mil shorty and AL 80).

Do you have ditchable weight pockets that go on the webbing? Or do you recommend staying with a weight belt?

Thanks

Bryan

 

[cool_hardware52]

I currently dive:
7mm full suit (hood/gloves/booties)
Ranger BCD
Steel hp100 (1 PST and 1XS)
24Lbs weight integrated - 16 in waist pockets and 8 in tank trim pockets
Frog Fins
6'0 Tall
245-250 lbs

Thinking about a dry suit, but that is down the road at some point??

If I need additional weight on the plate is the only option your bolt on plates?

Would the rig be able to be used in warm water vacation diving? (3 mil shorty and AL 80).

Do you have ditchable weight pockets that go on the webbing? Or do you recommend staying with a weight belt?

Thanks

Bryan

Hi Bryan,

Your wing has to be sized for your most buoyant exposure suit. Often this same wing can be used in warm water, but some divers will elect for a smaller warm water wing.

Currently it appears you are using about 28 lbs of ballast, lead, reg, empty steel tank.

Of this I'd guess ~4 lbs are required to overcome the inherent buoyancy of your current BC. That leaves 24 lbs to sink your 7mm wetsuit. That's a bit more than I would expect, but still within reason. You might be just a bit overweighted.

Any BC needs to meet two criteria:

1) Offer enough lift to float your rig at the surface with a full tank if you ditch it

&

2) Offer enough lift to compensate for the maximum possible change in buoyancy of your exposure suit.

A large SS plate and harness is about -7 lbs, your reg is -2 and a full hp 100 is about -10 lbs. Total -19 lbs. With an empty tank your rig will provide about 11 lbs of ballast.

If you add our weight plates your rig will be ~-27lbs with a full tank and provide ~19 lbs of ballast with an empty tank. That leaves ~4 lbs on a belt.

A LCD 30 wing is enough to float this rig.

Your suit Cannot loose more buoyancy than it starts with, i.e. an estimated 24 lbs. so a 30 lbs wing is enough here too.

The wildcard here is your future drysuit. How buoyant will it be? It's unlike to be more than 30 lbs buoyant, but that is possible with heavy undies.

What about warm water? Most WW divers are using a 3 mm suit and al 80's. That means they need about 8-10 lbs of total ballast.

A ss plate and harness provides 7 lbs and your reg is about -2 lbs. Many WW divers use just their plate, harness and reg as ballast.

With a rig that's only about -11 with a full tank, and wetsuit that's only 4-5 lbs positive one could use a very small wing. That's why we make 17 lbs wing, but many of our customers use their cold eater wing when they travel.

We don not offer weight pockets. With the right combination of plate type, cylinder type and or weight plates most divers weight belt requirements are between 4-8 lbs and this is easily tolerated by most.

Recap:

Large SS Plate
Hogarthian Harness
LCD 30 Wing
(cambands and wwedge blocks included)

Optional weight plates

If you have other questions let me know or call 626-799-5078

Tobin

 

[Spg01]

Thanks for the information!

So if I used the weight plates I would need about 4 lbs on a belt and without the weight plates it would be 12 lbs on a belt.

I guess my next question would be how my trim would be different with the weight plates Vs. without the weight plates? The plates sound great, but the sticker shock for 8 lbs is a little high.

Bryan

 

[cool_hardware52]

Thanks for the information!

So if I used the weight plates I would need about 4 lbs on a belt and without the weight plates it would be 12 lbs on a belt.

I guess my next question would be how my trim would be different with the weight plates Vs. without the weight plates? The plates sound great, but the sticker shock for 8 lbs is a little high.

Bryan

Trim is a very individual thing. I can't really predict how you will trim out. My standard recoomendation is to get the basic plate, wing, and harness and first determine your ideal weighting.

This is very likely to be less than you currently use, often much less.

Once you know how much total ballast you need you can start working on your trim.

If you have access to a pool take advantage. Pools have flat bottoms. Take some "temporary" lead i.e. ankle weights, soft weight pouches and zip ties etc.

Don't change your total ballast, but try locating ballast in different places. For example a couple ankle weights around the tank neck or zip tie a couple soft weight pouches along the edge of the plate. This will provide some hints as to where you need position your ballast.

If you find that having ~8 lbs off your belt and closer to your shoulders helps achieve horizontal trim the weight plates are hard to beat.

If you find you are in trim with your ballast in a belt do it. Belts are inexpensive.

Tobin

 

[ligersandtions]

The weight plates are amazing, though! They really are worth every penny I spent on them

That said, if I were diving wet (requiring less lead to sink me), I probably wouldn't need them. But I dive dry, so I need more weight....it's very nice to have it directly above my lungs!

I did, however, take Tobin's recommendation of buying just the plate at first and seeing whether I thought the weight plates would be helpful to me. It also allowed me to split up the purchases!

 

[Spg01]

Just a few more questions.....

So if I understand the 30 would work fine for now but I would need a bigger wing when I go dry. Would it make more sense just to get the bigger wing now? How much extra weight would you guess going dry adds? I know without the actual suit you don't know the exact lbs, but just a guess to know weather you are talking 1-2 lbs or 15 lbs of weight.

I was looking at your wing selection and noticed that the Torus models only come in 26 and 35. I would think that the 26 would not quite big enough where the 35 would have and extra 5-8 lbs of lift. Just curious if the 35 would work for wet and dry.

I have been told by some to look for the torus style instead of the horse shoe type. (Which I am guessing is your LCD model.) So I would like your opinion on the differences between the two styles and why I might choose one over the other.

Thanks for your time Tobin.

 

[cool_hardware52]

So if I understand the 30 would work fine for now but I would need a bigger wing when I go dry.

There's a chance your drysuit could be more than 30 lbs bouyant, but in my experience that's pretty unlikely. Without having the suit to test I cannot say for sure.

Could you start with a larger wing "just to be sure"? Of course, why not jump straight to the LCD 40 and really "be sure"

No real issues for cold water diving wet or dry, the downsides to oversizing your cold water wing become apparent when you travel to warm water and could be using a 17 lbs wing, but now you have a 35 or 40. If the cold water sing is carefully selected then it is often a reasonable choice for warm water too.

LCD vs Torus? Virtually no difference in how they dive, so little as to be no concern. Pick the capacity that matches your application.

For a horizontally trimmed diver the gas in *any wing* will be in two bubbles running down along side the tank. There will be no gas in the top arc of the wing and certainly no gas in the lower arc of a "donut" wing. The lower arc of a donut wing is under the lower end of the cylinder, it is the absolutely lowest part of the wing. Gas *always* goes to the highest point in a wing.

A few other points:

Donut wings do not provide lift at the hips. Wing provide lift where there is gas in them. The lower arc of a donut wing is between the cylinder and your butt.

Gas does not "circulate" in a wing. You add gas and you dump gas. Unless you are about 45 degrees heads down no gas will transfer through the lower arc of a donut wing. Wings equalize from side to side through the top arc most of the time. The top arc can roll up until it hits the valve and first stage.

With a well designed and properly sized wing with minimal tank wrap it is easy to shift gas from side to side via the top arc.

If your wing is too large, or has a wide center panel resulting in a lot of tank wrap (taco) it won't matter if it's a donut or horseshoe you will have to break trim to shift gas.

Tobin

 

[Spg01]

So the 30 lb wing "should" work for wet or dry diving? At most I was thinking about the 35. Although I currently dive a ranger that has 44lbs of lift, so anything smaller will be nice.

As you can tell I don't know all the small details about diving dry yet. So I am trying to plan ahead the best I can.

Thanks for the education on the subject.

 

[cool_hardware52]

So the 30 lb wing "should" work for wet or dry diving? At most I was thinking about the 35. Although I currently dive a ranger that has 44lbs of lift, so anything smaller will be nice.

As you can tell I don't know all the small details about diving dry yet. So I am trying to plan ahead the best I can.

Thanks for the education on the subject.

I cannot guarantee you that your dry suit won't be more than 30 lbs buoyant. I can tell you few drysuits are more than 30 lbs buoyant.

If you have other questions I'd suggest you call me at 626-799-5078

Tobin