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I am sure divers have used all of the wings I have mentioned. I am not sure of the intent of your question. Are you asking in a general sense or about the wings that I physically have in my possession?
ScubaDoc, is it possible that someone else, being a little careless, damaged your newly replaced bladder in the wing? I don't have a dog in this fight, but there are times when I could cheerfully murder my husband as he puts tanks on top of stuff, or lets things fall where they shouldn't. Some people just are not very careful.
"Equality of opportunity or equality of outcome?
One is consistent with a free people and the other requires a police state. Pick one." ~Cool Hardware52
I, alone, am responsible for my health and safety, my actions and inactions.
"If a small thing has the power to make you angry, does that not indicate something about your size?" ~Sydney J. Harris
I would like to believe that if this happened to me, the company would comp the second repair and not question the way I treated the wing. This guy bought multiple wings from your company, then paid you to repair it, and either had the misfortune to damage it, or it was already damaged... Either way it happened I would think the customer service oriented thing to do would be to comp the second repair. You are of course under no actual obligation to do this, I personally just believe it would be a good move.
I would like to believe that if this happened to me, the company would comp the second repair and not question the way I treated the wing. This guy bought multiple wings from your company, then paid you to repair it, and either had the misfortune to damage it, or it was already damaged... Either way it happened I would think the customer service oriented thing to do would be to comp the second repair. You are of course under no actual obligation to do this, I personally just believe it would be a good move.
Or maybe split it? I can understand both sides - Someone could be careless and re-pinch a new bladder. Or, something could have happened in transit to the individual that caused the new pinch.
The problem is, the OP didn't find the problem before he traveled, so I can see where the manuf. is coming from. Tough issue.
"Equality of opportunity or equality of outcome?
One is consistent with a free people and the other requires a police state. Pick one." ~Cool Hardware52
I, alone, am responsible for my health and safety, my actions and inactions.
"If a small thing has the power to make you angry, does that not indicate something about your size?" ~Sydney J. Harris
You claim to know the exact history of wings divers other than yourself use.
I never said I knew the history of the wings that other divers use. Just the history of the wings I use that are in my possession. Off topic though.
Originally Posted by cool_hardware52
No, we charged you for a new bladder. Bladders are $50, installed and tested. We again offered today to provide and install a new bladder and test your wing for $50. New wings are ~$300-320.
You are correct. You charged me for the cost of a new bladder. The 2nd one in 2 months. I do not believe that the one that was sent back after the first repair was functional.
Originally Posted by cool_hardware52
Again, you are simply wrong. We offered to replace the bladder. A bladder is a component of a wing, it is not an entire wing. The outer shell, fittings, hoses and power inflator were not damaged and do not require replacement.
To continue to claim we required you to purchase a new wing, and now claim we are trying to sell you another a new wing is entirely false
.
You are again correct. It was the bladder you were going to charge me for replacing. There is nothing that I have done to create a problem with the bladder.
Originally Posted by cool_hardware52
Bladders don't spontaneously pinch flat, but sufficient impact will damage the bladder in *any* wing. Any wing we repair is tested over night to verify it holds pressure.
Tobin
If there are tears in the bladder near the OPV then I have no idea how they got there. If you are suggesting that a heavy object was placed on it by me then that's not true. I do not install nor service bladders or wings. I know that there was no undue wear and tear that occurred by me on a wing that was not used since you serviced it. It is redundant to continue to pay for bladders that cannot last beyond one dive.
ScubaDoc, is it possible that someone else, being a little careless, damaged your newly replaced bladder in the wing? I don't have a dog in this fight, but there are times when I could cheerfully murder my husband as he puts tanks on top of stuff, or lets things fall where they shouldn't. Some people just are not very careful.
I don't believe so Jax. I am a little anal about my gear. My wife and I both dive and take good care of our gear. There were no tanks or other heave gear placed on the wing.
I would like to believe that if this happened to me, the company would comp the second repair and not question the way I treated the wing. This guy bought multiple wings from your company, then paid you to repair it, and either had the misfortune to damage it, or it was already damaged... Either way it happened I would think the customer service oriented thing to do would be to comp the second repair. You are of course under no actual obligation to do this, I personally just believe it would be a good move.
And not just the wings. I purchased the backplate and harness setup as well times 2. I spent over $1200 on gear that I expected would be functional. And this dispute over a $50 bladder does not seem very customer friendly.
I would like to believe that if this happened to me, the company would comp the second repair and not question the way I treated the wing. This guy bought multiple wings from your company, then paid you to repair it, and either had the misfortune to damage it, or it was already damaged... Either way it happened I would think the customer service oriented thing to do would be to comp the second repair. You are of course under no actual obligation to do this, I personally just believe it would be a good move.
My definition of good customer service is prompt, fair response to problems, not handing out free parts.
We have been prompt. DSS customers don't wait days for a reply, and months for parts to arrive from offshore.
We do actually have the necessary parts and can execute the required repairs in a day or two.
In cases like this the single most important thing for me is to get the customer to understand *why* the problem occurred.
That's the only real way to prevent it from occurring again. (and again and again)
Handing out free replacement bladders to somebody who is quite convinced that he did nothing wrong (twice!) and the product is "faulty" only reinforces that exact belief.
Should I furnish 1, or 2 or 10 free bladders a year?
OTOH when a customer approaches me with "I'm having a problem, what can I do to prevent it reoccurring" will get every consideration.
That's clearly not the case here.
Every cost a company incurs is ultimately paid by their customers, or they don't survive. Why should the balance of my customers bear the cost of the few?
My definition of good customer service is prompt, fair response to problems, not handing out free parts.
We have been prompt. DSS customers don't wait days for a reply, and months for parts to arrive from offshore.
We do actually have the necessary parts and can execute the required repairs in a day or two.
In cases like this the single most important thing for me is to get the customer to understand *why* the problem occurred.
That's the only real way to prevent it from occurring again. (and again and again)
Handing out free replacement bladders to somebody who is quite convinced that he did nothing wrong (twice!) and the product is "faulty" only reinforces that exact belief.
Should I furnish 1, or 2 or 10 free bladders a year?
OTOH when a customer approaches me with "I'm having a problem, what can I do to prevent it reoccurring" will get every consideration.
That's clearly not the case here.
Every cost a company incurs is ultimately paid by their customers, or they don't survive. Why should the balance of my customers bear the cost of the few?
Tobin
I guess it just boils down to a difference of business philosophy. There is no "right" answer. Honestly, if it were me I know what I would do, I would comp the second wing with the politely told message that free bladder replacements don't happen all of the time and made clear that your belief is that it left the repair shop fully functional, then something happened to it along the way beyond your control, but that since he is a good customer this time it's on you.
In cases like this the single most important thing for me is to get the customer to understand *why* the problem occurred.
That's the only real way to prevent it from occurring again. (and again and again)
The inherent problem with this statement is that it is never the fault of the manufacturer. If there is a problem, then it must be the customers fault. How many bladders should I replace? 2, or 3, or 50? There is no way to insure proper quality assurance if your philosophy is that you don't give out faulty equipment. Does one assume a 100% success rate on bladders that are dispensed from the company? Or is it possible that something else has occurred? Or is the customer always wrong?
Originally Posted by cool_hardware52
OTOH when a customer approaches me with "I'm having a problem, what can I do to prevent it reoccurring" will get every consideration.
That's clearly not the case here.
Let's be clear. I did not speak to you today regarding this issue. I did not speak with you today regarding anything. There was no opportunity to ask you anything. The only problem I am having is with a non functioning bladder in my wing. I do not need assistance with someone telling me not to place heavy objects on a wing. I do not need assistance with someone telling me to not "pinch" the wing. There does not seem to be a way to tell with certainty just how the tears got into the wing. My statement is that my having a bladder issue twice in 2 months seems beyond coincidental. I have no idea how the first tear developed. That's fine. I could see the tear at the top of the bladder. So I paid to have it shipped and repaired. This second issue was near the OPV. I could not see it. But I do not believe that I have created this issue. I have paid for the first issue. I don't think I should have to pay for the second when an exact cause cannot be identified.
I guess it just boils down to a difference of business philosophy. There is no "right" answer. Honestly, if it were me I know what I would do, I would comp the second wing with the politely told message that free bladder replacements don't happen all of the time and made clear that your belief is that it left the repair shop fully functional, then something happened to it along the way beyond your control, but that since he is a good customer this time it's on you.
Cause of the bladder damage is very obvious. When the bladder is removed from the wing and laid flat, and a back plate is placed over the bladder the slice in the bladder lines up with the bottom corner of the back plate.
I can reproduce this exact type of damage 10 out of 10 tries by dropping a back plate edge wise on a wing.
This doesn't happen by packing a wing in a suit case.
This doesn't happen while the wing is in storage.
This doesn't happen spontaneously, it happens when a backplate is dropped on a wing.
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Originally Posted by ScubaDocER
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