Need advice on BP/W package.

[mgh]

I guess this question is for Tobin, but everyone else can jump in with their .02 if they have the info. I'm a relatively seasoned diver (20+ yrs) and have been diving a weight integrated BCD for years. As I've aged and become less flexible I now notice that I feel like I'm wearing a 100 lb strait-jacket when loaded with all my gear and ready for water entry. After reading alot on these forums I have come to the conclusion that I need to change my BC gear.
I'll try to make this as simple as I can, I'm 6', 205 lbs., I dive with a 5/4 full suit in spring and fall and a 3/2 full suit in late spring/summer/early fall. I now dive almost exclusively with a 100LP Nitrox tank and carry 16/18 lbs soft weight in my BC depending on suit thickness and I realize I am quite negative (bad habit picked up from my old dive instructor). I need to know if the DSS BP/W package (harness, large SS backplate, and 30# LCD wing) would suit my needs. If this is the optimum set-up what kind of additional weighting would I need to be slightly neg or neutral, I would prefer to stay away from a separate weight belt if at all possible. I appreciate any and all suggestions.

[saxplayer1004]

30lb wing will be more than enough although I wasn't aware that they made a low pressure 100... Also keep in mind that the one piece harness will tend to dig into your shoulders a bit more than the jacket will when you're on land, especially so if you're broad chested. If you purchase a SS backplate, that will give you 6lbs of weight there, if you use stainless cam bands that will give you another 2 pounds, and that should be enough for the 5/4 with a 100cf steel tank. You will feel very odd in the water for a while, but the goal is to be able to have no air in your BC at the surface and with a full breath in be able to hang out with your eyes at water level and when you exhale, be able to sink with 300-500psi in the tank. Pool weight check with the 5/4 will do that for you. If you really do need extra weight, DiveRite makes weight pockets for harness setups and tobin makes steel plates that bolt onto the backplates but this is nonditchable so you have to be able to kick that rig to the surface.

[cool_hardware52]

I guess this question is for Tobin, but everyone else can jump in with their .02 if they have the info. I'm a relatively seasoned diver (20+ yrs) and have been diving a weight integrated BCD for years. As I've aged and become less flexible I now notice that I feel like I'm wearing a 100 lb strait-jacket when loaded with all my gear and ready for water entry. After reading alot on these forums I have come to the conclusion that I need to change my BC gear.
I'll try to make this as simple as I can, I'm 6', 205 lbs., I dive with a 5/4 full suit in spring and fall and a 3/2 full suit in late spring/summer/early fall. I now dive almost exclusively with a 100LP Nitrox tank and carry 16/18 lbs soft weight in my BC depending on suit thickness and I realize I am quite negative (bad habit picked up from my old dive instructor). I need to know if the DSS BP/W package (harness, large SS backplate, and 30# LCD wing) would suit my needs. If this is the optimum set-up what kind of additional weighting would I need to be slightly neg or neutral, I would prefer to stay away from a separate weight belt if at all possible. I appreciate any and all suggestions.

mgh,

It sounds like you are quite over weighted. (No time like now to break bad habits )

With a 3mm suit and HP 100 a SS plate may also be too much ballast. A SS plate + HP 100 is about right for a 5mm full suit, so you have a choice to make here.

If you use al 80's with your 3mm suit a SS plate is fine.

A large SS plate, harness, reg and full hp 100 will be about -20 lbs negative when the cylinder is full. That makes a Torus 26 a reasonable choice.

For 3mm + al 80's & 5mm + hp 100's:

Large SS Plate
Hogarthian Harness
Torus 26 Wing
(cambands and wedge blocks included)

For 3mm suits and HP 100's:

Large Kydex plate
Hogarthian Harness
Torus 26
(cambands and wedge blocks included)

Tobin

[MRTdiver]

As I've aged and become less flexible I now notice that I feel like I'm wearing a 100 lb strait-jacket when loaded with all my gear and ready for water entry. After reading alot on these forums I have come to the conclusion that I need to change my BC gear.

Sounds like you're older than me. Have you considered SM (sidemount)? Are you primarily diving in lakes, quarries, and streams?

Instead of lugging the tanks on your back you can drop them off at the water's edge, suit up, walk in the water, attach the tanks and dive.

Dive Rite has a few configurations (see DR). And it looks like Tobin may sell the Razor.

It would be a radical difference from what you're probably used to. Just a thought

[mgh]

Thanks for the info guys, I appreciate being pointed in the right direction. Tobin, if I read your response correctly you are saying I won't need any additional weight if I get the SS backplate? I know the full 100hp is quite a bit heavier than the 80AL but what happens when I'm down to 1000psi or less, will I become positive and have to kick to stay down? This is new territory for me so please be patient, I've always been over weighted so this is something I am going to have to get my head around.

[cool_hardware52]

Thanks for the info guys, I appreciate being pointed in the right direction. Tobin, if I read your response correctly you are saying I won't need any additional weight if I get the SS backplate? I know the full 100hp is quite a bit heavier than the 80AL but what happens when I'm down to 1000psi or less, will I become positive and have to kick to stay down? This is new territory for me so please be patient, I've always been over weighted so this is something I am going to have to get my head around.

I have to make a few assumptions.

1) That you are essentially neutral in just swim trunks. (Most people are, given that they make us out of primarily water.)

2) That your 5 mm suit is about +12 lbs. I'd prefer actual number on your suit, but 12 is a reasonable guess.

Your "rig" i.e. large SS Plate and harness, regulator and full HP 100 will be about - 20 lbs with full cylinder and will provide about 12 lbs of ballast when the tank is empty (100 cu ft of air =~ 8 lbs)

12 lbs of suit buoyancy is offset by 12 lbs of ballast provided by your "rig"

With a 3mm suit (typically l3-5 lbs buoyant) you will need less ballast. The easiest way to reduce your ballast is to use a al 80 tank. Instead of being about 2 lbs negative when empty an al 80 will be about 4 lbs positive.

Your rig, Large SS plate and harness, reg and full al 80, will be about -11 with a full tank, and will provide about 5 lbs of ballast when the al 80 is empty.

Tobin

[mgh]

Thanks for the response Tobin, I think I'm following the logic now, it's just hard to overcome 20+ years of bad habits and faulty information. Even now the Instructor on the dive boat I frequent recomends 10% of your body weight as the weight you should strap on, of course everybody sinks like a stone and you use a bunch of gas to get stabilized, which is why I have started down a different path (finally). I am an "air hog" which is why I moved up to the 100cu tank so I can get max bottom time and I am happy with that so I want a BP/W that works with that constant. I use Bare suits, the 5/4 is 5mm core, 4mm arms/legs, the 3/2 suit is the same so they may be a tad less bouyant so it appears with either set-up I wouldn't need any additional weights. Also I heard mention of a RAZOR rig, I checked your site but didn't see what it was, could you tell me what this rig is all about. I will be purchasing a set-up from you, I just want to be sure I'm getting what I need and should have. Thanks again!

[scubamountaingirl]

mgh

It might help you to take all of tobins suggestions and get in the water with an experienced tech diver who will help you make the changes. 20 yrs of bad habits can be quite overwhelming. If you want the name of someone who I trust can help you , shoot me a PM.

wendy

[cool_hardware52]

Thanks for the response Tobin, I think I'm following the logic now, it's just hard to overcome 20+ years of bad habits and faulty information. Even now the Instructor on the dive boat I frequent recomends 10% of your body weight as the weight you should strap on, of course everybody sinks like a stone and you use a bunch of gas to get stabilized, which is why I have started down a different path (finally). I am an "air hog" which is why I moved up to the 100cu tank so I can get max bottom time and I am happy with that so I want a BP/W that works with that constant. I use Bare suits, the 5/4 is 5mm core, 4mm arms/legs, the 3/2 suit is the same so they may be a tad less bouyant so it appears with either set-up I wouldn't need any additional weights. Also I heard mention of a RAZOR rig, I checked your site but didn't see what it was, could you tell me what this rig is all about. I will be purchasing a set-up from you, I just want to be sure I'm getting what I need and should have. Thanks again!

Don't sweat the small stuff. My estimates of suit buoyancy are almost certainly off by a little, but I'm in the ball park.

Unless you have a need for 2 cylinders you should stick with a BP&W, not a Side mount rig.

You can see the Razor at gosidemount.com

Tobin

[MRTdiver]

Also I heard mention of a RAZOR rig, I checked your site but didn't see what it was, could you tell me what this rig is all about. I will be purchasing a set-up from you, I just want to be sure I'm getting what I need and should have. Thanks again!