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I just completed a NSS-CDS Cavern Course at Ginnie Springs. While down in cave country, I encountered a number of divers and instructors with a negative view of DIR divers. I never brought up the topic, but disparaging opinions were offered quite readily. Is this just my isolated experience or a common North Florida occurrence? Is it better described as an inter-agency dispute/rivalry?
@ H2Andy and other who have trained with multiple cave agencies: What attitudes have you encountered? Did your instructors allow DIR gear configurations in class or did they suggest/require adjustments?
I just completed a NSS-CDS Cavern Course at Ginnie Springs. While down in cave country, I encountered a number of divers and instructors with a negative view of DIR divers. I never brought up the topic, but disparaging opinions were offered quite readily. Is this just my isolated experience or a common North Florida occurrence? Is it better described as an inter-agency dispute/rivalry?
@ H2Andy and other who have trained with multiple cave agencies: What attitudes have you encountered? Did your instructors allow DIR gear configurations in class or did they suggest/require adjustments?
It's not just a regional phenomenon ... disparaging commentary flows in both directions.
Last year I was working the beach for the local DUI DOG days event when I got almost "attacked" by an irate instructor from one of our local shops. He overheard me answering someone's question about why DIR folks prefer a particular type of suit. Next thing I knew he was in my face making comments like ... "Where do you guys get off telling other people how to dive. I've been diving since 1963 and know more about diving than you ever will. You people have a lot of nerve. Why don't you just go get lost in a cave or something." ... yada yada yada.
I let him ramp up for a few minutes, thinking to myself ... who's telling whom how to dive here? When he paused to take a breath I said ... "So I dive for fun, how about you?"
It seemed to take the wind out of his sails ... :browsmile
Life is short. Break the rules, forgive quickly, kiss slowly, love deeply, laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that makes you smile.
Not everyone who reads SB is looking to learn how best to use their new snorkel. Some are here just hoping to get the chance to tell someone else exactly what they can do with their new snorkel. While others are trying to sell their old snorkel. (gypsyjim)
Men are like a fine wine. They start out as grapes, and it's up to women to stomp the crap out of them until they turn into something acceptable to have dinner with.
crap like this makes me wanna sell my gear on e bay..
LOL ... it makes me wanna get underwater, where there ain't no Internet and if anybody wants to offer an opinion about my diving style they'd better be damn good with hand signals ...
Life is short. Break the rules, forgive quickly, kiss slowly, love deeply, laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that makes you smile.
Not everyone who reads SB is looking to learn how best to use their new snorkel. Some are here just hoping to get the chance to tell someone else exactly what they can do with their new snorkel. While others are trying to sell their old snorkel. (gypsyjim)
It's not just a regional phenomenon ... disparaging commentary flows in both directions.
I’m definitely aware that it's not just a regional phenomenon. I was a little surprised at all the negativity that close to High Springs. I guess I expected to run into at least a few cheerleaders.
Living in the area, I hear and see a lot of the hostility. And with me taking classes from both GUE and NACD (coming) it's interesting. I walk the fence. For me, all these agencies have a lot of things to tell me to make me a better diver. I am very uninterested in the politics of it all, and just want to be a good diver.
In High Springs, there are CEE people, Salvo people, and Extreme Exposure people. I generally visit all three when I hit town. Get my fills at CEE, stop by EE to say hello to the guys and see whats in the "Blemished" bins, and then head to Salvo after checking into the motel. And then head to Floyd's for some wings and a vanilla shake!
One thing to keep in mind is how SMALL the GUE group really is. Even in the small cave comminunity, GUE represents just a tiny sliver of the pie. Their influence in diving is out of all proportion to their size. I'm sure this irks some.
But if you hang around Ginnie long enough, or CEE, you'll hear some great GUE jokes or stories.
Did your instructors allow DIR gear configurations in class or did they suggest/require adjustments?
Goes both ways my friend.....
Did your DIR instructor allow what ever configuration you wanted to use or did they suggest/require adjustments?
Just like your GUE instructor wants to expose you to his philosphy on gear/diving and then allow you to decide if it's for you, your cave instructor should be given equal right don't you think?
Did your instructors allow DIR gear configurations in class or did they suggest/require adjustments?
I feel that since this is in the DIR forum I should make the following disclosure. I am not a DIR, or GUE trained diver. I am however a TDI and NACD full cave diver.
My instructor did offer suggestions on my gear configuration, he also left me some room for personal choices. The things he would have required I already had set up "properly."
My gear configuration is pretty much in compliance with DIR standards right on down the line with two exceptions. I use a computer, two actually, of the same manufacture. These computers do not have a separate guage mode, but they always display bottom time, depth, and maximum depth, as well as other computer specific information. These computers NEVER lock me out, they always give me the information I need to dive tables OR the computer. The other difference is that my backup second stage is a TX50, this is identical to my primary and has an adjustment knob that is not reccommended on a DIR backup.
Do I see hostility in cave country, no. It has been several months since I was there however, since I am stuck in California right now. Do I have any hostility toward GUE trained divers, no. In my opinion all cave divers are highly trained and extremely proficient. I have observed in other areas that GUE trained divers place a higher emphasis on drills aimed at keeping up the skill level on all dives. I view this as a very positive aspect of the GUE philosophy.
Generally the comments that I have heard all over the country are actually aimed at a very small group of divers who are highly vocal about their GUE training.
I would be happy to dive in a cave with almost any cave diver regardless of training agency. I would base my decision on the specific diver and their skills and mindset, not the agency that got them there.
Did your DIR instructor allow what ever configuration you wanted to use or did they suggest/require adjustments?
Just like your GUE instructor wants to expose you to his philosphy on gear/diving and then allow you to decide if it's for you, your cave instructor should be given equal right don't you think?
That is an excellent point, although I should point out that I personally haven't taken fundies (yet), nor is my rig 100% DIR compatible. I was just a little surprised at what the instructor suggested. He seemed to be of the "as long as it is made by Dive-Rite" camp when it came to gear. Don't get me wrong, I appreciated the different point of view and followed all his suggestions for the class.
I guess the debate on ScubaBoard seemed to me to be OW Divers/Wreck Divers/ect vs GUE. I expected (quite wrongly) more closely related views in cave country. I learned alot this weekend, both in and out of the water!
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Originally Posted by xiSkiGuy
