Why are we so mean?

[DevonDiver]

Andy, I'm not at all suggesting that we should never say anything critical or point out issues or problems,....On the other hand, saying, "How can you stand on the bottom like that? Didn't your instructor teach you ANYTHING?" is unlikely to encourage the person who posted the picture to ask you for any more advice

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Of course... I do agree with you. I just didn't see that thread as particularly hostile or unfriendly. I did, however, think the OP had a jerk attitude when several members made polite observations about the length of his LPI hose. The observations were a simple statement of fact - not a judgement on the person concerned, his knowledge, his instructor or anything else. "Your LPI is a bit long". There's no need to take offence to that. In addition, to retort with defensive "I know better" replies was also rude and dismissive of the generously donated experience that was provided for him. Because of that attitude, the guy alienated the people who were trying to help him... and his attitude became the focus of the thread thereafter.

btw... I use funny photos to indicate that my posts are tongue-in-cheek and not aggressive.

[Tortuga68]

As the person who first made the observation that the OP's inflator hose was a bit long in the thread in question:

New twin set rig

I was a little embarrassed by the dogpile that followed, and found some of the responses heavy-handed & unnessescarily sarcastic - even if that wasn't what the people making them intended

The guy was clearly excited about his new kit and wanted to share his excitement with his fellow divers

By the time someone bothered to explain WHY the hose length could be an issue I doubt he was still reading the thread

So, what was achieved?

[DevonDiver]

I expect he'll go to his AN/DP course with the issue in mind... and it'll prompt him to have a good discussion about it with his instructor. Then he'll be back on here.

[LauraJ]

Thanks for starting this thread Lynne...

Another thing that is simply unnecessary and makes me quite sad after all the work people have put in trying to change perception of "us", is folks dredging up of old GI3 rhetoric from the archives. It is the mentality that goes hand in hand with what is being discussed here, and in a way feeds it. I dream of a day when we can grow beyond our past...

[kathydee]

This recalls a thread a few years back where one of "us" ... well, rhetorically speaking, since I'm not really one of "us" ... had a question about a little pokey stick that's popular with dive guides in Indonesia. They're used for pointing out tiny things like pygmy seahorses and such. Some divers also like to use them on drift dives ... which are common in certain places over there ... to keep them stable while taking pictures. Well, anyway, this particular diver was pretty new at the time and had, I think, just returned from that corner of the world. Her question was asked with sincerity. Some of the replies were pretty over-the-top ... and downright mean.

Anyway, I did my best to answer her question and shed some light on why some folks don't think divers should equip themselves with pointy objects for the purpose of balancing on the bottom or walls of a dive site. She was pretty receptive ... curious ... had a bunch more questions. One topic led to another, and before ya know it she's signing up for GUE classes.

Now she's more DIR than I'll ever be ... and still just as nice as can be.

I just went diving with her last week, as a matter of fact ... for sure she don't need that pokey stick anymore ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Thanks ! More DIR than you - who would have thought ??

Bob, the kindness you showed by protecting me from all the jabs on that innocent pokey stick thread will never be forgotten . Without your support and friendship, I probably would have left Scubaboard and never encountered DIR diving/divers.

It was kind/tolerant divers such as yourself, and later Lynne & Cave Diver who offered a gentle bridge for many of us to cross over from the recreational world to DIR diving. You offered the dignity to explore DIR without feeling guilty or wrong for having followed the guidance of our prior recreational instructors/training organizations.

I absolutely agree - kindness, patience, tolerance, encouragement, respect and ongoing support are much more effective ways to introduce DIR diving to others, than through judgmental elitist comments & a snarky attitude.

[Scott L]

Having just re-read the thread, I do not believe it was overly harsh. The plastic buckles on his harness barely were mentioned. Also, he was not posting in the DIR forum. On a side note, he dropped some major coin on his two computers (OC1-Rec, X1 Tec) as referenced on his profile.. Should have included in the pic.. Lastly, does Light Monkey sell cylinder bands?

[Tortuga68]

I expect he'll go to his AN/DP course with the issue in mind... and it'll prompt him to have a good discussion about it with his instructor

I doubt that. He's already started the course, if his instructor thought the hose was too long he should have mentioned it already, which clearly he hasn't

Having just re-read the thread, I do not believe it was overly harsh

How would you characterise it then? Friendly? Welcoming? Helpful? Bearing in mind the guy just posted a photo of his new gear

On a side note, he dropped some major coin on his two computers (OC1-Rec, X1 Tec) as referenced on his profile.. Should have included in the pic.. Lastly, does Light Monkey sell cylinder bands?

What difference would that have made, and yes they do

[Belce]

I really think that GUE divers in my area and in and around Seattle have made a decision to be more open, accomadating and friendly to the local diving community.

[lamont]

I'm pretty sure there has been a very concerted effort at the top of GUE to get the instructor corps a bit more professional, and to weed out some of the attitudes that it used to foster.

Some of that doesn't seem to filter down to all the students, though, and some of them still don't seem to have gotten the memo that its not okay any more to be elitist and to look down on recreational divers.

A bit of that does seem to be that there's still quite a few instructors that tear down students or beat on them and then when they get out of the course there seems to be some psychological transference as the students want to go beat on recreational divers after the course. A lot of the better GUE instructors that I've had, haven't needed to do that and haven't had any of the ego chip-on-shoulder stuff where they need to try to prove anything to their students.

[DevonDiver]

I doubt that. He's already started the course, if his instructor thought the hose was too long he should have mentioned it already, which clearly he hasn't

Yikes.

How would you characterise it then? Friendly? Welcoming? Helpful? Bearing in mind the guy just posted a photo of his new gear

Well, you posted the first 'critique', which was well-founded and informative for him. It may have come across as being sarcastic though...

"I hope the inflator will be long enough!" Although, I recognised it as a nice vehicle to deliver a subtle message with a smile.

TStormdiver added to your observation and gave a more factual, if brief, explanation.

I added some further humour, without comment, by posting the John Cleese 'raising his eyebrows' pic (it was actually an animated GIF.. but wouldn't play on the board). There was no comment, no snarkiness and no sarcasm - just a funny pic to '+1' your recommendations and illustrate that the length of his LPI was 'eye raising'.

The OP then re-joined and provided an explanation (?) that the hose wasn't that long... it was just looked long because "the wing was bent over"... which is silly... because the LPI is long. Not too long, not going to kill him, not stupid... it was just a 'long' LPI hose. If you went into a dive shop and asked what sizes they had... they might say "short, medium and long". That was a long one...

Tortuga68 provides a link that illustrates the various hose length options.. "IJS". I respond to the OP's denial of 'long hose length' with the Jackie Chan 'exasperated' pic. Again... not rude - just illustrating some frustration that the well intentioned advice provided by Tortuga68 and TStormdiver had been thrown in the gutter, because the OP wanted to argue the long-is-short.

So.... I fail to see where this guy was 'pounced on', 'insulted' or otherwise shown a bad impression. Is this actually a symptom of modern GUE? That the actions of the past now cause a culture of apology? I'm not GUE trained... but I understand the issues that previously smeared your organisation amongst the wider community. I see none of that now, here on SB. I see a bunch of polite, well-meaning and well-intentioned diving folks. So please, don't go thinking that you need to walk as if on eggshells. There's no need to consider flagellating yourselves just because one diver didn't respond well to some well-meant and constructive advice... or a bit of humour.