How does GUE certification work for Wreck diving?

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WhiteSands

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Hi all,
I'd like to understand how GUE's certification works for wreck diving. AFAIK GUE only offers Tech & Cave courses, but no Wreck.

Will a cave cert allow you to dive in wrecks? And how do the limits transfer over from Cave 1, Cave 2 to wreck diving?

I am sure there are similarities, e.g. overhead environments. However, are there challenges/dangers/difficulties encountered in wrecks that is not covered in Cave class?

Thanks.
 
Depends on the charter operator, some don't care if you have a "wreck" card or certification at all, some accept cave cards as good enough, some want a "wreck" card.

Of course once you get far into technical wreck diving there are no cards for that and you get invited on hand picked charters based on longstanding experience with the operator and the dive group. And/or based on diving resume.

And yes there absolutely are differences between overhead types, that are not covered in cave classes. Many cave instructors don't even dive in the ocean, so expecting to learn how to dive wrecks in a cave class is ill advised.
 
Has GUE ever considered teaching a wreck course?
 
I believe a wreck curriculum is in process.

Some cave skills translate neatly to wreck diving. Some wreck diving involves specific and unique risks. A GUE diver interested in doing serious wreck exploration or penetration diving would probably connect with someone who had experience in those areas and get some mentoring. At the moment, there is no formalized class for this.
 
There is no GUE wreck course offered at the present time, so I took GUE C1/C2 and spent some time with a wreck instructor from another agency. He was recently trained through GUE T2 and quite willing to work within my limits/training. I am grateful to have GUE training for overhead procedure, but picked up some useful tips and new considerations for environmental hazards (unique to wrecks). Post class debriefs with several GUE (who dive wrecks) proved quite valuable to help integrate.

Thus far, dive operators have accepted my cave card when diving wrecks.
 
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Access to wrecks isn't tightly controlled/regulated in the way access to most caves is. Consequently, there's never been a great emphasis on the need for mandatory wreck certification. That's a practical issue, rather than a ethical one - because wreck penetration can be just as hazardous as cave penetration, at times... more so.

I wouldn't suggest that a cave cert was acceptable for wreck diving. Any more than a wreck cert should allow access to caves.

Reverse the original question and I don't see many (any?) in the cave diving community who'd favor letting qualified wreck (penetration) divers free reign into caves....

The core skill-sets and protocols of technical/advanced wreck and full cave are virtually the same. But the approach and hazards can differ markedly.
 
I believe a wreck curriculum is in process.

Some cave skills translate neatly to wreck diving. Some wreck diving involves specific and unique risks. A GUE diver interested in doing serious wreck exploration or penetration diving would probably connect with someone who had experience in those areas and get some mentoring. At the moment, there is no formalized class for this.

Hi TSandM,
May I know what some of the risks/challenges unique to wreck diving are? Thanks.

---------- Post added April 25th, 2014 at 09:08 AM ----------

The core skill-sets and protocols of technical/advanced wreck and full cave are virtually the same. But the approach and hazards can differ markedly.

Could you elaborate on this please?
 
Could you elaborate on this please?

On most technical/advanced wreck courses, you will learn the same basic protocols as per full cave. Drills like lost line, lost buddy, entanglement etc. You will learn team diving, roles and responsibilities. You will learn guideline deployment and retrieval. You will practice specific drills, contingencies and skills without visibility (black mask) etc.

Wrecks tend to be considerably more confined/restricted than most caves (at least at entry-cave experience levels). There is more risk of structural collapse in many wrecks, silt is almost inevitable, there are many sharp objects (risk to guidelines), there can be multiple entanglement hazards (beyond your own guideline), such as electrical wiring and other floating debris. Areas such as engine rooms can be very disorientating and restricted - full of pipes/equipment etc with no 'clean surfaces' - making contingency searches very difficult. Protocols for staging tanks / deco aren't as clear-cut and require a decision-making process and some careful planning/consideration. Ascent from the overhead-to-surface can be more complex and have other (open water) environmental conditions - these can sometimes conflict with priorities for the actual overhead phase. There are issues with currents, tides etc - these can differ from simple 'flow' planning in a cave. Wrecks can contain hazardous materials, including liquid pollutants. There can also be hazardous marine life in/around wrecks (i.e. stonefish/scorpionfish in the tropics).

Wreck penetration does not tend usually to be as lengthy (in distance from open-water/ascent) as cave diving, but there is greater risk of entanglement/entrapment. Many wrecks offer multiple entrance/egress points - often favoring traverse dive approaches. Or, at least, identification and planning for contingency exits. There may also be issues in running guidelines from outside the wreck, should the wreck site be shared with other/recreational divers etc...

So.... even if the core approach is the same.... there are a hundred 'little differences' that could trip you up. Avoiding those trip ups...and the consequences they sometimes bring...is why we train.
 
Thank you for the very comprehensive explanation on the differences.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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