Standardized Prices?

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alewar

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Messages
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Location
Dark side of the moon
# of dives
200 - 499
Hi there!

It seems the GUE training beyond fundamentals costs a small mountain of cash each time.
Is there is an agreement between the instructors to standardize the cost of the courses or should I ask different ones and see whether there is a considerable difference or not? What are your experiences with that?
 
I can assure you, the cost is not standardized. Look at Zero Gravity who charges $950/student in Mexico (link) and Meredith who can be $650 for weekdays (link) and gives a rebate of $25pp to sign up with a full team.

Unlike other agencies, becoming a GUE instructor isn't an easy task and it costs the instructor a large fortune in start up costs-- not to mention the cost of having enough gear to teach a class (if a student's gear fails, it's helpful to have backup gear of your own). Because of this, most of them aren't going to be willing to teach at the same rates you see from other agency instructors.

If you're in Germany, it's likely that the difference in tuition will be a wash by the time you factor in travel costs either for you or the instructor. $300/class variance isn't anything when you start adding up plane tickets, rental cars, hotels and meals.

I would advise you to clarify ALL costs before you commit to a class. I know at least one or two friends who have had sticker shock at the end of the class when travel costs were factored into the equation.
 
I cannot avoid traveling thousand miles and paying for accommodation if I want to do C/T1. A $300 difference would be something to consider.
 
The costs are for sure standardized. There was a paper going around a while back encouraging instructors to all charge the same amount. You might get some variation in Mexico where those guys have students lined up a year+ in advance, but that's the exception rather than the rule.

I think gue is the best game in town but the price thing grinds my gears. It's artificial and blocks people from taking the training unnecessarily and drives them to other agencies.

When I took cave 1 it was 1500 bucks. I think I saw a c1 for 2500 posted the other day, maybe even 3k. It's bananas.

now, that's not to say I don't think some instructors shouldn't charge more. A class with Jarrod or David Rhea probably should cost
more than a class with Timmy Tentpeg fundies instructor. But that's not really what's happening here.
 
Unlike other agencies, becoming a GUE instructor isn't an easy task and it costs the instructor a large fortune in start up costs-- not to mention the cost of having enough gear to teach a class (if a student's gear fails, it's helpful to have backup gear of your own). Because of this, most of them aren't going to be willing to teach at the same rates you see from other agency instructors.

It's not easy, the same way as it may not be easy for instructors of other agencies. There are plenty of people who needed to work hard and show excellent level to become instructors.
And is it a GUE-only thing to have spare kit for students? I see that all the time.

But you did touch an important reason, they were charged a lot, therefore they now charge a lot. And the new ones will have been charged a lot and therefore... I think GUE started purposely elitist and in some aspects it still remains so.

Some people also say the courses are expensive because of the amount of time the instructor spends with the students... In my cave courses I was 24h (minus toilet time :p ) with my instructor (TDI). The same happened when my girlfriend did cavern with IANTD instructor.
 
I asked my fundis instructor if it was worth the money becoming a GUE instructor and he told me he got his money back in less than a year teaching fundis in Germany.
That's curious because you don't see people lining up to take fundis here and if you look at the enrolled people at GUE's website, more often than not courses are empty and end up being canceled.
 
It's not easy, the same way as it may not be easy for instructors of other agencies. There are plenty of people who needed to work hard and show excellent level to become instructors.

Really? It cost me £2500, mostly fees, to become a PADI recreational insturctor, able to teach a half dozen courses, most of which I was woefully underprepared to teach and only had to tick a box and sign a cheque to say I wanted the ticket. The whole process took two weeks. That's not agency bashing, that's the truth and my personal experience. By comparison, the process to become GUE instructor took me three years, meant I had to fly to several countries around the world, and spend approximately 10K. That's to become a recreational instructor able to teach 1 course. The process to become a Tech1 instructor is equally challenging, and I have just begun it.

And is it a GUE-only thing to have spare kit for students? I see that all the time.

As a PADI recreational instructor I used to carry about £400 worth of spares. As a GUE instructor I now carry about £4000.

But you did touch an important reason, they were charged a lot, therefore they now charge a lot. And the new ones will have been charged a lot and therefore... I think GUE started purposely elitist and in some aspects it still remains so.

Some people also say the courses are expensive because of the amount of time the instructor spends with the students... In my cave courses I was 24h (minus toilet time :p ) with my instructor (TDI). The same happened when my girlfriend did cavern with IANTD instructor.

This is what winds me up. The courses are not expensive. Fundies with me will cost you about $200 per day. If you want me to teach you to become a developer it will cost you about $800 per day. If you want me to work with your company as a management consultant it will cost you $1500 per day. It is a bizarre state of affairs that teaching life, saving, critical skills that require me to be constantly assessed and re-examined, and require me to continually improve and be measured against my peers, is far and away the cheapest and undervalued thing I do.

The reason GUE courses appear to be expensive is because the 1 thing GUE will NOT do is allow the education to become completely devalued in the way a significant part of the industry has. The fact that people consider $200 a day for someone's time outrageous says far more about the terrible state of the dive industry than it does about GUE. This is a side effect of an industry that survives by being an instructor-generating machine. What you are left with is a market flooded with instructors who have to work for peanuts, or free because they love doing it, and a market that learns to expect this. Standards cannot be maintained if you are not paying people like professionals and you are left with the "pick the instructor, not the agency" nonsense. If standards were "standard" as they should be, you should be able to pick any instructor. I know several superb PADI instructors who could never earn a living teaching full time, which is ridiculous given that they are talented, knowledgeable educators.

The simple truth of why my courses cost $200 a day is because that's the bare minimum I expect to charge as a professional educator, and because I believe the education I provide is a bargain at that price. I am, of course fortunate that GUE do not create an environment where I am competing with tens of thousands of instructors. I am also lucky that I have a reputation which means students come to find me. I charge MORE than $200 a day for private dive coaching for recreational and technical divers, so GUE education with me is cheaper.
 
The fact that people consider $200 a day for someone's time outrageous says far more about the terrible state of the dive industry than it does about GUE. .

Truer words have rarely been spoken. I've almost ubiquitously (with the exception of initial training because I didn't know any better) paid closer to a professional rate for training (and even then it was a relative bargain).

When I'm teaching I charge a professional and non-negotiable rate for my time.

People who shop on price largely get what they pay for.
 
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