Comparing the Sierra to the Zuexo Xjoy 14

[TheDivingPreacher]

I'd suggest waiting for the results of the 2011 Tahoe Bench Mark.

Tobin

I appreciate that advice. I'll be in the States for a short time coming up and if I'm going to buy the Sierra I need to do it while I am there. It cost's roughly 50% more in Europe.

I understand Suex were invited but didn't participate

The estimated public release date on the TBM website is still "late September"

To the best of my understanding there is no functional difference between the Halcyon models tested and the Suex models they are copied from.

I read about the delays on results due to some friends passing away so it is completely understandable.

[Tortuga68]

To the best of my understanding there is no functional difference between the Halcyon models tested and the Suex models they are copied from

Hmm depends how you define functional I guess... but I believe both H scooters have 'upgraded' batteries compared to their Suex versions, so the burn times will be different

[TheDivingPreacher]

Hmm depends how you define functional I guess... but I believe both H scooters have 'upgraded' batteries compared to their Suex versions, so the burn times will be different

they sell both of them here: DirDirect :: Scooters

My statement was inaccurate. But in my opinion the minor differences don't offset the major price difference, as with all things Halcyon :-)

Looks like the main difference is the Halcyon upgraded the battery from a 14 to 16 ah in the larger scooter and put the 14 ah Nimh in the smaller one instead of the sla batts.
Both of which have a longer run time than the Sierra.

[Mr.X]

I saw a SUEX years ago at a dive expo and thought it a nice looking scooter. It had conventional lead batteries and seemed similar in design to a Gavin. Out of the scooters I've used - I like the Sierra design mainly because it's easier to travel/fly with and the body has been bulletproof for years. The prop assembly did fall apart and was easy to solve as it was a standard MAKO part. Having three MAKO-style scooters it was very easy to swap out parts.

If the Sierra costs 50% more in Europe - I bet it wouldn't be too difficult to flip with a profit it if it doesn't suit your needs? At the end of the day the X scooter is the easiest scooter to fly back and forth. That said - Homeland Security nearly wrecked my X scooter by taking it out of the travel case and setting it on some rough concrete floor with the seal side down. I had left explicit instructions on what it was, what not to do etc. They didn't read it. Of course, they removed the vinyl seal protector which I had taped on to prevent idiot stuff like that.

X

[TheDivingPreacher]

- Homeland Security nearly wrecked my X scooter by taking it out of the travel case and setting it on some rough concrete floor with the seal side down. I had left explicit instructions on what it was, what not to do etc. They didn't read it. Of course, they removed the vinyl seal protector which I had taped on to prevent idiot stuff like that.

X

I never considered that. Have to ask for advice on how to protect the thing in travel if I end up with one. Thanks

[Mr.X]

I never considered that. Have to ask for advice on how to protect the thing in travel if I end up with one. Thanks

I know FDOG travels a lot with his X scooter and he had some very good tips on traveling with the unit. The standard travel case with a standard Sierra comes under the 50 lb limit. That said - TSA / Homeland security always makes life difficult....even without a scooter. When I travel with my Megalodon rebreather head I know I will get stopped. With the scooter batteries I will get stopped. With even a small amount of water (less than 2 oz) I will get stopped. Grannies and toddlers get stopped still.

Sorry - got on a rant. The X scooter is broken down into two traveling pieces. The nosecone and tail. With the nose cone I tape on a piece of vinyl tubing to protect the sealing side of the nose cone. It's a precision machined edge with two sealing surfaces. TSA managed to chip a sealing edge as they set it down somewhere while taking off the sealing ring. I left explicit instruction on what not to do, what it's function is, pictures of it in use, pictures of the battery using simple language (English/Spanish) and pictures etc. With the battery as carry on I had technical documentation/pictures on what it was and usage. Even with a ton of documentation - expect to be stopped. A lithium ion battery will probably not make the cut.

Last bits - first-class service does help...sometimes. At the end of the day - if it's going to Europe I would just make sure to pad in extra time for security. I am sure others can add to their traveling experiences and give you advice.

Best with your new technical scooter purchase....and you can say goodbye to explosions underwater!!!!


X


p.s. just went and visited the x scooter site - and now they have protective rings!!!
http://dive-xtras.com/pages/accessor..._protector.asp

[Dashrynn]

FWIW I dive along side a sierra owner using my Hollis h-160. When i have to drag him home, it's because his battery has ran out, never malfunction. His scooter is going on 5 or 6 years now I think.

[DA Aquamaster]

As noted above the Halcyon R14 is a slightly "upgraded" Xjoy 7 and the T16 is a slightly upgraded Xjoy 14.

We borrowed both from Ken a Halcyon on our last trip to FL and both had their own set of virtues.

The R14 is very light and compact and if I were buying a travel scooter for single tank recreational diving it would be high on the list. If I did not currently own a scooter it would also be on the short list (R14, refurbed Sierra, used UV18 or 26). It is less well suited to technical diving however. It works in a high flow cave like Ginnie in doubles but it's marginal with some kicking required to get through the lips. On "high" speed it runs about like our unmodified Mako on pitch 7 (around 140 fpm in doubles). I see no use for the "low" speed.

Being a small scooter it was not surprising that it was a little squirrelly and less comfortable to drive. However it is neutral and trims well, especially in contrast to a Mako with its tail low trim. It occurred to me that for the occasional scooter dive, as compared to diving it weekly, the NiMH battery is probably more of a pain than the SLA in the XJoy 7, so I'm not sure it's an upgrade. I suspect Halcyon would sell more if they sold it with an SLA option and knocked about $600 off the purchase price. A new scooter for $2100 that is very travel friendly and 300' capable would get attention even with the speed limitations.

The T16 runs with our 1000 rpm 21 Ah Makos (200 fps) but does so with a lot more class and is in a word "smooth". It's kinda like driving a Cadillac and the infinite speed control and the various cave/tech features were very nice. The lighter weight, more durable hull and deeper depth rating are extra icing on the cake.

That said, the long skinny tube is streamlined but I found it harder to manage when towing it on a tow strap in and out of the cave. The wider body on the Mako (or a Gavin, SS, etc) rests on your legs a lot better, but that's probably a personal preference.

But with that said, given that we don't tend to go below 200' and given that we get 55-60 min run times and 200' per min speeds when we need it, and two 45 min dives when 150 fpm will do, I'm finding it hard to justify replacing our upgraded Makos given that they are paid for.

[JahJahwarrior]

Having owned and used both an SS UV26 and a DiveXtras Sierra, I have to recommend them both.

I sold the Sierra, though. Why? Couldn't afford a Lithium battery, and the nimh battery wasn't enough burn time for technical cave dives. The 26, at...more than double, but I don't think quite three times the weight, felt much stronger and faster in the water.

Both use the same shaft seal, and I don't believe the extra oring from the nose cone is really a problem, as much as Dive X will tout their reduced oring count. I'm not a fan of the welded on shroud struts, but I don't think they are a problem, either. The SS has "hollowed" bolted on shroud struts. Drop the scooter, bend a strut, you can get a new one for real cheap and you are fine. Do that on a Dive X and you have to bend it back, and hope the weld doesn't develop a leak, which it probably won't, but still...

My next scooter will probably be one of the lithium SS's, but if I ended up with a lithum Dive Xtras, I'd probably be just as satisfied. The weight of a UV26 is really a dive killer, in the sense that I don't carry it very often due to the weight. The Sierra, I took diving much more frequently.

I can't compare the Sierra to the Suex, but I haven't heard any complaints about either. To me, it depends on what your buddies dive. Here, most people use SS or Gavin, which use the same prop, and similar motors, if a buddy has a Gavin that breaks, I can probably diagnose the problem and fix it. If your buddies have Sierras, then get a Sierra so you can share spares kits. If they have Suex's, get that so you can share spares.