Hey you Cops, wouldya' cite me?

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Rick Inman

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The law in our local Spokane River is that divers must always tow around a dive flag. However, when we drift the river we do NOT take a flag for a couple of reasons.
The fast water drift we do, lasting about 1.5 miles, is in an area with no boats or swimmers (just the occasional fisherman). Towing a flag/line is just not safe! This dive requires complete focus and the addition of a flag complicates things.
If there does happen to be a jet ski on the water, they almost never understand the dive flag, and so they like to do circles around it. This drift dive is shallow (0' to 15') and requires us to surface often for barrings, so a jet ski buzzing your flag is not safe.
The flag is a definite entanglement hazard. The first time I made this drift, the current shoved me down into a deep hole against a huge bolder in fast water, and as I kicked around it, the flag line got tangled on... something, and I was stuck with the fast water banging me against the side of the bolder. The line had gotten tangled around my tank, but as I was going for my knife, the line came loose and I was released. It was hairy for a minute.
This dive is so much safer without the flag! So here's my question to all you law enforcement officials (yeah, you too, Gary D. - although I think you'd just shoot me from the shore :D ):
If you saw me diving without a flag, would you ticket me?? I've been told that others HAVE been, but I find it hard to believe that reason won't win out.
 
It's not a fair question as to whether or not we (LEO) would ticket you or not 'cause it's a law and we are sworn to uphold it. It has to be a case by case situation, just like a speeding ticket. If I pull someone over they get the ticket or warning, and alot depends on how fast they were going, Where they were speeding and lastly their attitude.

Based on your story I do not see the problems with towing a flag. I do it all the time, the line is on a regular line holder and I slip it on my arm and practically forget about until I feel a tug once in a while from the surf. You never want to tie it off to you where you a forced to cut the line with a knife, with it looped over your arm all you have to do is straighten out your arm and it's off.

I do remember that I had to arrest a guy on a warrant issued out of Monroe Co. (the keys)for not displaying a dive flag. Evidently he was issued a notice to appear in court and never did. So a Judge issued the warrant and they brought him back for his hearing.

So I guess if you are ever in the Keys diving you had better have that flag above ya'

wildbill:cop_2:
 
Rick Inman:
The law in our local Spokane River is that divers must always tow around a dive flag. However, when we drift the river we do NOT take a flag for a couple of reasons.
The fast water drift we do, lasting about 1.5 miles, is in an area with no boats or swimmers (just the occasional fisherman). Towing a flag/line is just not safe! This dive requires complete focus and the addition of a flag complicates things.
If there does happen to be a jet ski on the water, they almost never understand the dive flag, and so they like to do circles around it. This drift dive is shallow (0' to 15') and requires us to surface often for barrings, so a jet ski buzzing your flag is not safe.
The flag is a definite entanglement hazard. The first time I made this drift, the current shoved me down into a deep hole against a huge bolder in fast water, and as I kicked around it, the flag line got tangled on... something, and I was stuck with the fast water banging me against the side of the bolder. The line had gotten tangled around my tank, but as I was going for my knife, the line came loose and I was released. It was hairy for a minute.
This dive is so much safer without the flag! So here's my question to all you law enforcement officials (yeah, you too, Gary D. - although I think you'd just shoot me from the shore :D ):
If you saw me diving without a flag, would you ticket me?? I've been told that others HAVE been, but I find it hard to believe that reason won't win out.
Ready on the right?
Ready on the left?
All ready on the fireing line?

hehehe

No I wouldn't simply because I know the river. Our section can go from from zero to 70' fast and under boulders and even under old bridge sections.

Come to think of it, in almost 30 years of diving the river we have never used a flag and I have never seen one used in the 8 miles from the dam to the state line.

It's normally nasty enough not many divers try it. That's a blessing because we would fill the Darwin Awards list yearly if they did.

Gary D.
 
Rick, come to my neck of the woods. I'll give u a stick to throw in before you jump in so we know were to pick you up.....or better yet, when to call Gary so he can grab you around Harrison. I never heard, is the law a state one or a county ordinance. Either way I think they need to adjust it because it is more a risk to drag one along in the river as you illustrated in the story you told me about your near "incident." Now down near Boulder where there are boats, novice divers should have to use them so they don't get cut up, however I think the float/flag makes a great target for dumb/drunk boaters. The same way flashy flight attract drunks into the rear of police cruisers. Good thing I have a BIG truck with a steel 130 and two pony's with a drunks name on em if they should ram me. Too bad we're getting a custom roll out bed that will keep 'em locked down.

Oh, by the way I would never say "sign here, press hard five copies" to you. I'd just book ya. Being a flight risk and all. I never know where your going next.
 
Oh, by the way I would never say "sign here, press hard five copies" to you. I'd just book ya. Being a flight risk and all. I never know where your going next.

Hee hee. You got THAT right. You never know when I just might take off for warmer parts (see the last 5 mins of Shawshank Redemption) :eyebrow:

BTW, this is a 6.5 year old thread, and since I posted this over 6 years ago, I have done a lot of heavier dives. But this one still remains the closest I've ever felt to the chance that I might not surface, even though I was in just 15' of water.
 
a Law is a Law! no if's and but's ....if i was the cop,,i'd given you a ticket boy!
 
LOL ok first off thanks for bringing an old thread out of the basement LOL. Anyway Ill say it like this. The law is grey in a lot of ways and as mentioned above their can be some sway as to how an officer would address it. If it were a dumb diver who was not flying a flag and got hit by a boat Id probably not site him since in this state the diver is fully responsible for his own injuries and can in no way cast blame on the boat if he is not flying a dive flag. Id just chalk it up to him being an idiot and then summon our lake patrol (Actually though its on the lake here the highway patrol does the lakes). and allow them to handle their jurisdiction.
 
The law is grey in a lot of ways and as mentioned above their can be some sway as to how an officer would address it. If it were a dumb diver who was not flying a flag and got hit by a boat Id probably not site him since in this state the diver is fully responsible for his own injuries and can in no way cast blame on the boat if he is not flying a dive flag.


As a police officer who has spent thousands of hours on a patrol boat I have seen a lot of incidents with divers flying a flag or failing to display one. This is done for a variety of reasons. Some divers are ignorant of the law, some are diving illegally for artifacts and try to keep their activities clandestine and don't wish to give away their "honey holes". Some carry flags with them. I believe if you don't carry a flag and get hit by a vessel you will have a hard time collecting any damages as you contributed to the accidnt.

I have been buzzed by boats when displaying a flag and had divers in the water and later had to take some enforcement action against the Captain of the offending vessel who refused to stay 75 feet away as required by Virginia law. He made two passes by my boat and passed within 15 feet of my vessel. I advised him of the law and he told me I did not know the law. I advised him I WAS the law and showed him a badge. He then advised he did not give a "F" who I was and passed by me a second time even closer with his big Grady White 25 foot boat. He was a bit taken back when I showed up at his apartment later on and I believe he now gives dive flags a wide berth.

I also admit diving without a flag on many occasions on small rivers where there are normally no boats with gas motors in the area. Darned if I did not get clobbered by a canoe with an electric motor. It was all my fault so what could I say ?

Back in the 80's I was snorkeling on a small river looking for meg teeth with another officer.
We heard a motorboat coming and moved to the side of the river near a gravel bar and were in 3 feet of water. The folks in the boat started shooting at us with a .22 rifle from several hundred yards away. They had seen us blasting our snorkels dry and shot at what they described as "a school of fish". We did not have a dive flag but I believe if we had been displaying one, these morons may have taken pause before shooting at us.

The shooter was charged with reckless handling of a firearm and the operator was charged with possession and transportation of a firearm after being convicted of a violent felony.

I took a shock corded tent pole that breaks down into three pieces and attached a flag to it. It stows very nicely and it is nice to have and if I need to surface and feel the need for a flag I just open it up and poke it out of the water until I know the coast is clear. Hopefully it will be seen and nobody will run me over or shoot at me when I get to the surface. Maybe that would work for you as well.
 
I have been buzzed by boats when displaying a flag and had divers in the water and later had to take some enforcement action against the Captain of the offending vessel who refused to stay 75 feet away as required by Virginia law. He made two passes by my boat and passed within 15 feet of my vessel. I advised him of the law and he told me I did not know the law. I advised him I WAS the law and showed him a badge. He then advised he did not give a "F" who I was and passed by me a second time even closer with his big Grady White 25 foot boat. He was a bit taken back when I showed up at his apartment later on and I believe he now gives dive flags a wide berth.

I agree though my instance was not in the realm of investigations or other official work I did once go to a cliff area where people love to jump off the cliffs. We were the only ones there so I raised my flag as required by law and to legal standards. When I surfaced just 20 minutes later I almost hit a boat on the way up which anchored 10 feet from my boat. To my surprise I was met by a redneck with a beer in his hand sitting in the drivers seat asking me "Hey are you a diver?" As I looked around I was in shock that there was about 10 boats now all tied together and within 5 feet of mine. Everyone was cheering and everyone had a beer in their hand (I honestly dont see why they would cheer a diver surface unless completely drunk) I immediately got back on the boat and hauled rear out of their.

Sadly in the state of Oklahoma they sell you a boat no matter how much experience you have had with a boat. I never owned one and never knew a single thing about the law so I had my father go with me to explain everything to me and even he did not know what a divers flag was. It amazes me like others have said that speed boats and jet skies think a dive flag is where you turn around and do your donuts around.

My point being no matter what precautions and laws are made to protect bother divers and boaters it will never matter until they make it a requirement people learn marine flags and lights in order to operate a vessel. For those in places where they do require this it still wont matter until people start taking the law seriously.
 
a Law is a Law! no if's and but's ....if i was the cop,,i'd given you a ticket boy!

Thanks for the "boy" part. :D

As you say, you're not a cop, nor am I, so I don't know how much flexibility the law gives them. But the several I know personally are reasonable and can think for themselves just fine. I believe in following the law or paying the consequences. But I do appreciate those officers who can look at an individual situation intelligently and act accordingly. :coffee:

James Croft:
He was a bit taken back when I showed up at his apartment later on...


I can promise you that if James Croft ever came to my place it would be to go for a dive, not because I gave him any hard time as an officer.
 
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