Diving, Flying, Cruising & Root Canal

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Dive00

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:bonk:

My lower molar (tooth #31) needs a root canal. The tooth does not hurt, however there is a large abscess, gum swelling, and draining. I've been learning alot about dentistry. I just found this website tonight, and posts (no pun intended) by Laurence Stein, DDS have been most informative. I have never had a root canal before.

I have visited 2 endodontists. The first wanted to complete treatment in one visit. The second wanted to complete in 2 visits. I've read that single visits work, but I've also read that 2 or 3 visits are sometimes needed if its a molar or there are other factors (inflammation). I'm flying to the Carribbean and taking a cruise (no dental access) departing in mid December. The second endodontist, who is a diver, said I could go diving with the temporary. I know there are different professional opinions, however, keeping my tooth is my highest priority. Although I would go diving every day, I can enjoy other activities such as snorkeling.

First, I am conservative and would kick myself if I did'nt give this root canal procedure my best effort for success. The root canal and crown will most likely not be completed prior to departure. It seems diving is not in the cards for this trip?

Second, it sounds like flying is not advised? Maybe I should not go on this trip. I have trip insurance. Saving the tooth is my priority.

Thanks
 
I can't offer you any advise , but I can share my experinces with you.

I've had two root canls, by two different dental surgeons.
Both took 2 visits. The first was to drill out the exiting dead root and break into and drain the absess. The cavity was then irrigated and packed with a batting soaked in medicine, that I can only describe as tasting like MEK (Methyle Ethyl Ketone) or what I imagine MEK would tale like. A temporary filling was place over it, and I was prescribed antibiotics to treat the infection. A week later, the temporary filling and packing was removed and the hollow canal was filled with a rubber compound. In one case the eye tooth or canine was intact , the drilling done was on the inside or back side of the tooth and was not visible, so a white filling was all that was needed. On the second tooth the damage was much worse, a threaded post or stem was installed and a crown added.(this was much more expensive).

I did not dive between treatments.

Hope this helps

Mike D
:blfish:
 
mddolson, thanks.

I understand all posts have an implicit disclaimer attached.

Sounds like your root canal hurt alot. How long ago did you have it done? Any molars? Was it done by an endodontist?

I just noticed some light blood last night. Also, a taste that was not pleasant is present.
 
The actual root canal process is painless. After it is over the most pain you will feel is the ach in your jaw from holding it open so far. You are numb during the process. If you have an abscess now and you are not getting it done right away...then this tells me that you are already on antibiotics to battle the infection and maybe pain killers too. Only dive after your root canal if the Dentist tells you that the pulp area has been completely filled. Not with a temporary packing. As far as a Temp Crown....go ahead and dive. If you dive or not.....take along some temporary dental adhesive with you on vacation. It can be purchased in just about any drug store chain.

The doc had something to say about this in
http://www.scubaboard.com/t16062/s.html
 
Dectek, I'm not on antibiotics and there is no pain. There has been an abscess since March of 2001 (on x-ray), but I only became aware of it last month when the dentist took a new x-ray. I called the endodontist today and mentioned the blood and bitter taste. He said to swish warm salt water 2 - 3 times a day. He would have written me a prescription for antiobiotics, but he seemed like it was not necessary. Maybe I should be on antibiotics? My root canal appointment is for Deceber 10th. I don't think the pulp area will be filled until the second visit, which will probably not be completed prior to my trip. I'm concerned because root canal is successful in over 90% of patients, but one dentist said 50% and the other 70%. One said the lower percentage is due to the large abscess (wish the dentist saw it in 3/2001). The other said lower odds due to a possible crack and loss of bone.

Thanks for the link. I tried to read thru all the root canal articles. Laurence Stein, DDS prefers not diving with a temporary crown. I like to be conservative and will not dive. He appears to be a bright, conservative and analytical doctor. If I lived in Miami I would like to visit his office. Plus he is an Emory University grad, my alma matter. Go Eagles.

I just spoke with a friend who has had a few root canals. He said his new endodontist had a little device that provided reverse pressure on his jaw. This resulted in no jaw pain -- a first for him.
 
I'm not a dentist, but last week my wife had to see one in Bonaire for an abscessed tooth in need of a root canal.

The dentist was a diver and treated many divers, and opened up the roots, placed her on antibiotics, and left the cavity open for us to pack with cotton for meals and keep open between meals, with frequent use of antiseptic mouthwashes.

She said it was very common for temporaries to present trouble with diving and suggested the hand packing before eating and removal after as the best bet.

Her recommendations may have been inflenced by her knowing I was doc, but i hope not.. dentistry is not my area of expertise.


My wife has done marvelously and was able to dive without pain.
We are now back home (sob) and she's going to see the endodontist to complete treatment.


Dive painlessly,

John
 
Dive00,

Looks like I'm at bat right now.

Diving with abcessed teeth, incomplete root canals or poorly treated root canal therapy is not a good idea in my opinion. You're begging for a real problem if you do. Fortunately, the problem is rare. Considering the actual number of devitalized teeth running around, barodontalgia is not common.

If you have a draining abscess, usually you will not be in pain. The pressure from pus and gases can vent out the opening in the gum. Should this opening close, however, you could experience pain and swelling.

Generally, root canals don't hurt. With a draining abcess, you might not even need anesthetic! No nerve, no pain. Most people are not brave enough to try though--can't say that I blame them.

One visit or more? I do it both ways. If the tooth is without pus when I open it, then I will consider one visit. With drainage or lots of pain, I would rather not remove a permanent filling to retreat. Some dentists treat abscessed teeth in one visit routinely and succeed. I just don't think it is as predictable. That is MY OPINION though. This opinion is not meant to make you mistrust your dentist. His opinion is valid too.

Following the root canal, you may want to wait a few days just to see if the tooth is tender. As long as the canal AND chamber are completely filled with a non-porous material, you can dive. No cotton should be under the temporary filling.

My reason for advising not to dive with a temporary crown is because it is meant to be removed. According to Murphy's Law, Root Canal Corollary: A temporary crown will come off at the most inopportune time, when you least able to have it recemented by a dentist. Said crown will be swallowed or aspirated. The outcome being determined by which will cause more damage, pulmonary obstruction or bowel obstruction.

Temporary crowns tend to stick to gum and candy and are fairly easily displaced. Normally, a patient is instructed to replace it and get to the dentist. Replacing it prior to diving, without cement is NOT a good idea.

Antibiotics are probably prescribed too often. Generally, the removal of the infected material within the canals and chamber is sufficient to begin the healing process. However, when there is swelling and obvious extension of the infection, limitation of opening, delay in treatment, elevated temperature, antibiotics are appropriate.

Delay in treating a tooth in need of a root canal can result in severe infection, loss of surrounding bone, loss of the tooth/teeth, pain, loose teeth, inability to adequately restore the area in the future.

Forget about the diving...if you need a root canal, get it done first. It easy to make the tooth adequate for diving...quickly. If it can be done in one visit, great! March of 01 is too long to go. The longer you go without treatment, the poorer the prognosis.

Safe diving,

Laurence Stein, DDS


:doctor:

Disclaimer
(No representations are made that in any way offer a diagnosis, treatment or cure for any illness or condition, either discussed or implied. Answers to questions are offered as information only and should always be used in conjunction with advice from your personal diving physician/dentist. I take no responsibility for any conceivable consequence, which might be related to any visit to this site.)
 
Laurence Stein, DDS

Thanks for your reply. I realize these are your opinions, and there is more than one opinion. I've read the Consumer Reports Books Complete Guide to Dental Health, the Reader's Digest article, etc. However, I appreciate hearing knowledgeable opinions, and I realize all opinions will never be the same.

I did not know of the abscess until 10/02 during my routine exam (IF I KNEW IN 3/01 I WOULD HAVE HAD THE ROOT CANAL DONE THEN). My dentist saw something, I believe a pimple on my gums, and ordered an x-ray. He showed me the abscess, gave me the x-ray, and recommended an endodontist. He said the endodontist could just put a filling in the molar if she wanted, instead of returning to him. In 11/02, during the appointment with the endodontist I asked if the abscess existed on the full mouth x-rays in 3/01 and she said yes. Knowing what I do now, I can read the x-rays and see the abscess in 3/01. I asked the endodontist why the dentist did not inform me of the abscess in 3/01 and she said, as I expected, you will have to ask him. In fairness, I don't know if the abscess is obvious in 3/01 without first seeing the 10/02 x-ray (I'm being kind because I like this dentist, but i can clearly see an abscess. It also concerned me that he said to just put a filing in the abscessed tooth). She does the root canal in one visit and said the odds of success are 50% because of the large abscess. She also said it needed a crown.

I got a second opinion in 11/02 by a dentist who does root canals in 2 visits and he has more experience than the other endodontist. My root canal appointment is for 12/10/02 - the earliest available, non emergency, with this dentist. He said the odds of success are 70% because there could be a crack in the tooth.

I'm not batting well with this molar because another dentist changed the filling in 10/00 and less than five months later in 3/01, there is an abscess (WHICH I DID NOT KNOW ABOUT UNTIL 10/02).

Saving my tooth is my #1 priority and I appreciate your opinion. I have a draining abscess, inflammation, but there is no pain. The root canal appointment is on 12/10/02. The endodontist said to rinse with warm salt water, but would write my a prescription for antibiotics if I desired. In your opinion are antibiotics an advisable possiblity.

If the dentist only completes the first visit prior to my trip, would you go diving? What do you mean "As long as the canal AND chamber are completely filled with a non-porous material, you can dive?" I'm inclined not to dive with the temporary becasue I can enjoy myself on this cruise by snorkeling and dive after completion of treatment, which hopefully results in a crown and not extraction. I also believe in Murphy's Law.

What about flying?

By the way, I fully understand your Disclaimer, but I appreciate your viewpoint. Sorry to be long winded.
 
Hi Dive00,

Consumer Reports and Reader's Digest........hmmm......I'm thinking.....er......OK! Be careful what you read--not everything is as it seems. Since those articles are published without a particular diagnosis in mind, they can be misleading. I cannot accurately comment on your condition for the same reason...except that I have a Code of Ethics which requires me to refrain from making false statements or statements that can be misconstrued. Reader's Digest is under no constraint.

Back to the reason your dentist missed an abscess on an older x-ray...all dentists have missed pathology--fortunately not very often. When a tooth is first abscessed, there may be NO RADIOGRAPHIC evidence. Sometimes, only a little "suspicious" area may exist and it is easy to miss it on reading. An early cementoma will appear as a radiolucency ( a dark spot) and may be misread as an abscess. The mental foramen below the lower bicuspids can appear as a radiolucency and so can the bone trabeculae. A small lesion is actually easy to miss unless the patient has symptoms to match.

Some x-ray view don't show the root apices so it will not be imaged on every visit. A view called the periapical is needed to show the entire root. Check-up x-rays often use two or four "bite wings" of the posterior (back teeth) and two periapicals ( of the upper and lower front teeth). Root pathology will not be seen on the bite wings.

The endodontist was right not to comment, except to tell you to ask the treating dentist.

I am also not telling you that your dentist did NOT miss something. I simply don't know and no other dentist who wasn't there when the potential failure to diagnose occurred could know either. It's too tough to call. Consumer Reports can say anything they want.

Remember, I told you that the more often a tooth is treated, the more likely it can abscess? This MAY have happened here. The dentist, in good faith, puts in a filling but that tooth is a gonner. The dentist didn't know this would happen. Without any symptoms prior to the filling and assuming your x-rays were "within normal limits", the dentist recommended a filling.

I also told you that old fillings may lead to fractures. It turns out that fractures ALMOST NEVER SHOW ON X-RAYS. Undetected fractures are often the cause of dental problems that lead to nerve death and root canal therapy. Sometimes the fracture can be seen using high intensity light...trans illumination and sometimes it can be seen during the cavity preparation if the light is just right. They are very easy to miss and they are a major aggrevation for patients and dentists trying to do the right thing.

Antibiotics...only actually needed for an acute infection. It may do no good for a chronic (long standing) infection. They are used too often and often misused by the patient..."I'll keep 4 for a sore throat." So do you need an antibiotic...maybe......

I meant by the canal and chamber that any temporary filling should be placed WITHOUT a ball of cotton in the chamber and a temorary filling on top. This air space is the problem and is to be avoided. A ball of cotton is the norm for most root canals. Yes the endodontist can place a permanent filling but they often don't because they do not normally place final restorations. They might not have any or if they do, they may not be proficient in permanent placement. They are a specialist and in most cases haven't placed permanent fillings in years.

A crown is most appropriate in most cases. Sometimes we tend to leave lower front teeth alone. They get less force applied on them and the preparation of such small teeth with a hole already down the middle for the root canal access ends up sacrificing too much tooth. It can be done if necessary along with a post.

Back to fractured teeth. When they occur, they sometimes form at the root end of the tooth and cannot be seen--except by an endodontist who might have a fiber optic scope capable of seeing to the apex (root tip). Not all dentists, even specialist have this device. BTW if the endodontist happens to see a fracture running along the floor of the pulp chamber, ask them to tell you. It can affect the prognosis and almost always ends in the extraction of the tooth but it might take years to occur. You'll have a decision to make.

Diving with a known fracture can be a potential problem. Gas can get into the tooth through the blood supply of the periodontal ligament surrounding the tooth. Pain and rarely, breakage of the tooth may occur. Nothing can predict if or when it might occur.

Large abscesses also destroy a lot of surrounding bone. This compromises the prognosis. If the pulp abscess communicates through the gum with a periodontal abscess, this is called a combined lesion and it has a very poor but not 0 prognosis.

I want you to know that I'm not jumping on you for reading Consumer Reports. Unfortunately, advice, in the form of information has to be taken in the right context and under a known diagnosis. This information can help you to ask the right questions but it may also cause you to become suspicious of the dentist because you assume that your information from the magazine is correct. You should not even assume that the information I am writing is correct pertaining to your specific problem. This is where you have to rely on your dentist.

The patient, under a blizzard of conflicting information, is not able to make an informed decision. The is what the Code of Ethics is supposed to address. Reader's Digest made a serious error years ago and I still am very wary about their reporting.

Anyway, be safe diving. Remember that barodontalgias are very rare (although I'm getting the idea that they are not as rare as reported). Heck Johns wife needed one in Bonaire.

Hey, call me Larry.

Regards,

Larry Stein


:doctor:

Disclaimer
(No representations are made that in any way offer a diagnosis, treatment or cure for any illness or condition, either discussed or implied. Answers to questions are offered as information only and should always be used in conjunction with advice from your personal diving physician/dentist. I take no responsibility for any conceivable consequence, which might be related to any visit to this site.)

Damn, my fingers are tired!:)
 
Dive00 bubbled: Sounds like your root canal hurt alot. How long ago did you have it done? Any molars? Was it done by an endodontist?

I felt nothing duirng the procures, The root and nerve are dead, no pain. My canine or eye tooth hadd a nasty infection with swelling above the gum line, that hurt a lot.

The second was broken tooth, no pain at all after the original injury that is. 1st one was 20 years ago, still in good shape, 2nd one about 5 years ago. Also ok, (I'm 48)

All precedures were my my dental surgeon.


MikeD
:blfish:
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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