I still got cold... any suggestions?

[WC46]

Ok, I did my first dive today with my new DUI TLS 350. Water temp was about 48 degrees. Dive was 42 minutes. I had on a pair ff Under armor cold gear and a used DUI 400gram Thinsulate undergarment from rental. I still got cold. Any suggestions on a different setup or undergarment type?

[trucker girl]

I could be posting out of my gas, but I think 48 degrees for 42 minutes is pretty darned respectable. I don't dive dry (hence the posting out of my gas comment) but I know a lot of folks who do (mostly from the GLWC)- and 42 minutes at that temp is a long time. Of course, there are those who dive arctic waters who can provide some insulation advice

[PerroneFord]

Ok, I did my first dive today with my new DUI TLS 350. Water temp was about 48 degrees. Dive was 42 minutes. I had on a pair ff Under armor cold gear and a used DUI 400gram Thinsulate undergarment from rental. I still got cold. Any suggestions on a different setup or undergarment type?

That garment is used in ice diving. However, Thinsulate loses some (much) of its insulating capacity when washed. And even without washing, it loses effectiveness with age.

I'd be willing to bet if you did the same dive with a NEW 400g, you'd have different results.

[badger state diver]

Do you have built in boots and dry gloves because if you dont that could be one reason you got cold. Also if you didnt have enough air in the suit and it was squeezing on you that could be another reason you got cold. but my last bit of advise is as a fellow midwest diver, just pray for the weather to get better soon!

[AlaskaDiver]

Okay - I certainly agree with trucker girl's comment about your duration of time in the water - very respectable. So now I bet you want to remain warmer longer? Who doesn’t?! Here’s some of my ideas to make your stay underwater a bit warmer. Be smart about your clothing choices and take into consideration your time above water and the conditions of the topside weather.

I. Be smart about what you wear.
Your DUI suit is a trilam shell providing very little warmth. I dress in layers made of warmth retaining, water wicking material. Absolutely no cotton. That’s for the ride home in the car. Wool socks (2 pair) are essential on every dive. Those fancy booties provided with the drysuit are best used around the house. Too bulky. Here's how I do it under a cordura suit both with a rock boot set up and in another drysuit where the feet are attached. Wet suit for the warmer climates.

31F-45F degree water: I wear a Thinsulate garment with two lycra suits on under it and silk long underwear next to my skin. 7mm hood. Dry gloves mandatory.

45F-55F degree water: I wear a Thinsulate garment with two lycra suits (one is next to my skin). 5-6 mm hood. Dry gloves mandatory.

55F-65F degree water: I wear either one of the following 3 set-ups: a 4th Element set of poly pro or two piece REI/EMS Poly Pro or the two lycra suits -- with the silk long underwear next to my skin. 5-6 mm hood. Dry gloves or wet gloves (7mm).

65F-79F degree water: Same as 55F-65F but without the silk long underwear. 5-6mm hood. Dry gloves or wet gloves or bare handed.

79F-81F degree water: 3-4-5 wet suit. 3mm hood. Rock gloves or bare handed.

81F-85F degree water: 2-3mm wet suit or stinger suit. Rock gloves or bare handed.

II. You are breathing cold air.
You are below water with a metal cylinder holding the gas that you breathe. You are inhaling the air almost at the temperature of the water. Your body will continue to chill no mater how many layers of clothing you are wearing. Marathon diving is not the smartest thing to do. Take a longer surface interval to thoroughly warm your core temp up during a dive day. You get to do more dives and socialize a bit.

[Jandee]

I think you were doing great if you lasted 42 minutes at 48 degrees. I dive Lake Michigan where the bottom temp is about 45 degrees all summer. Dry gloves really helped me. I wear polypropaline long johns, the thickest polartec sweat pants and top, and thick wool hunting socks. I buy this stuff from LL Bean. Change your socks for your second dive and don't wear your sweaty T-shirt under your dry suit. If you are a little damp before jumping in you will be cold.Take your dry suit off between dives and turn it inside out to dry. Even though my suit doesn't leak I always have some condinsation inside my suit after a dive.
Go to the bathroom right before you dive. Once I have to pee, I get cold. I stay warmer then most of the guys.

[dannobee]

Ok, I did my first dive today with my new DUI TLS 350. Water temp was about 48 degrees. Dive was 42 minutes. I had on a pair ff Under armor cold gear and a used DUI 400gram Thinsulate undergarment from rental. I still got cold. Any suggestions on a different setup or undergarment type?

As Perrone suggested, the unders might be "worn out" and not providing as much insulation. New(er) ones might work better. I use Bare CT200's right now.

What kind of hood do you have? If you're going to dive cold water, get a custom 12mm hood from Otter Bay. They're about $80 and well worth it. Forget that 7mm stuff.
Wetsuits

Oh, and I did two dives yesterday and both were about the same length of time (40-some minutes) and temp was 46 degrees. I only surfaced because buddy was low on air. I could've stayed longer.

[RonFrank]

I think the 400g underwear is suspect if it does not keep you warm. As a new drysuit diver however you may also need to keep a bit more air in the suit to keep you warm. Some dry divers use Argon to help stay warm.

Staying warm in sub 50F water even dry is not always easy, or even possible. I'm generally happy if I'm not cold!

[TSandM]

Some good suggestions above. Perrone's spot on with the idea that Thinsulate loses effectiveness over time, so your rental undergarment may well not have been nearly as effective as it should have been.

A few more to offer, from someone who's spent three years trying to figure out how to maximize bottom time in cold water: A really good hood makes a huge difference. It should fit snugly and not permit much water circulation. A lot of people locally use the 12 mm Otter Bay hoods -- That will probably be one of my next gear purchases.

Second: Be careful about getting cold BEFORE the dive. I often drive to the dive site in my undergarment, so that the time spent assembling gear is not time spent losing precious body heat that I could have used underwater. I view heat as a consumable resource very much like breathing gas, and I don't like to waste it on the surface.

Third: NO HANGING OUT ON THE SURFACE! Dive plan, gear checks, etc. should be done on land if the water is that cold, unless the air temperature is so high you can't stand to be in it (in which case the water temp is rarely that low). Time spent waiting for buddies to get in the water, or fiddling with gear, is heat spent that didn't buy you bottom time.

Fourth: In very cold water, SWIM. I have learned that it takes only a little activity to stay much warmer, but dives like drift dives, where I'm doing nothing, result in getting cold very fast.

Fifth: Consider Argon. I know the only study published on it didn't support its use for divers not using helium, but my personal experience is that it makes a difference. My husband agrees with me.

Sixth: Depending on your level of experience in a dry suit, consider running the suit a little looser. For a long time, when I was new, I inflated the suit only enough to take off the squeeze, and used my wing for buoyancy. As I've gotten more skilled, I've added more gas to the suit, and it does result in staying warmer. The downside is a more unstable bubble, and you have GOT to know how to vent and anticipate buoyancy changes or running the suit loose can be downright dangerous.

I would also second the suggestion for optimizing the insulation on your feet and hands. Dry gloves are a must for me.

[WC46]

Hey everyone thanks for the info. I'm learning here. I'm thinking it might just have been the rental thermals. Probably a bit worn. What's the recommendation on purchasing new thermals?