A Drysuit is a Drysuit is a Drysuit

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Vegan Shark

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Messages
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Location
Okinawa
# of dives
I just don't log dives
I'm throwing in the towel. I thought I could advance into tech diving, and do long shallow dives on doubles in 55 degree water wet, but after 2 hours at 40 ft I raised the white flag.

When I saw other divers get out of the water, and quickly hop into their cars wearing their undergarments, while I was struggling to change out of a neoprene vice grip in the cold rain, I decided it's time to go dry.

The only question is: What makes one drysuit better than another?

Crushed neoprene, trilam, P-valves, changeable seals, dry gloves, dry hoods ... the list of options is baffling for a first timer! The price differences are especially confusing. What separates a $1000 entry drysuit, like the Scubapro, Pinnacle, or Whites, to a $3000 suit like Santi, Waterproof, or FE?

If the only purpose of a drysuit is to block out water, then so long as the seals are fitted properly a $3000 suit won't be warmer than a $1000 suit, right? Is the extra $ all about durability and design, or are you paying a brand name tax?

Right now I'm looking at Fourth Element's drysuit (rebranded Ursuit I believe), Waterproof's line, Hollis, and Santi. I really love how the Fourth Element looks, and am impressed by the quality of their other products, but the only place I could try one is 7 hours away. The other brands aren't too easy to try out, either; all the stores seem to just stock DUI.
 
Well this promises to be an interesting thread. Drysuits brands tend to have rabid fans and detractors, so take any information with a pinch of salt...

So, I have been diving dry for about 35 years... It's the only way to enjoy diving up here. I've owned neoprene suits, and Vikings. I love the Vikings... super durable, dry and bombproof. Also, not overly flexible, expensive and not available in custom sizes.

I would say that between all of my friends, virtually every brand of suit is represented. My main buddy wears a el Cheapo Bare crushed neoprene that I think he paid under $1000 for it. He's hard on his gear, the suit is old and has a ton of dives on it, and it's still 100% dry. I also have friends wearing brand new $3000 DUI custom suits that have given them nothing but grief from day 1. And I have friends who have ancient old DUIs that they love, although the suits seem to be in for service a lot.

The big advantage to a membrane suit is that it has one purpose... to keep you dry. The insulation you wear underneath it is what determines warmth. I vary mine a bit depending on the time of year. (Basically add or remove a sweatshirt layer and a pair of socks)

I think that where you need to start is with sizing. If you require a custom size, then many brands are eliminated. Next, consider support. Is there a dealer nearby that knows their stuff? Price may or may not be a factor to you, but I think that there is not a direct correlation between price and quality... I think the price has more to do with features, brand and options (pockets, rings fro dry gloves etc.) You need to decide on what's important to you...

What I can tell you (and this is purely anecdotal) from observing my dive friends... Top tier suits would include DUI (especially for custom fit and features, customer support, which you might need), Santi, Viking. I seriously considered going the el Cheapo Bare route this time around, but stumbled into a sweet deal so stayed with Viking..)

If you don't need a custom fit, then consider features and fit.

At the end of the day, almost anything will be better than diving wet. Although a "dampsuit" is mighty awful to dive in too...

Some manufacturers (notably DUI) have demo days where you could try a suit out before you buy... worth doing.
 
Price isn't an issue, so long as it's justified. If a $3000 suit will last longer, and give me less woes than a $1000 suit, then it's worth it. But if a Pinnacle/Whites/Bare will do the exact same job as a Santi/Waterproof/FE/DUI, I'd rather take that extra $2000 and go on a dive vacation rather than pay just for the brand name.

With wetsuits I have noticed a huge difference between cheap and high-end. Better seals, stitching, more waterproof zippers, higher quality materials, etc. make the expensive ones warmer, but for a drysuit I'm not sure if the same can be said.

The forum is full of complaints about leaky suits, but what causes leaks? Why would a custom DUI leak more for one person than an el cheapo Bare? Is it because their seals weren't properly fitted, or they just got a lemon?

DUI's next demo day here is 4 months away, but if I still don't have a suit by then I definitely plan on going.
 
I would surmise that the majority of leaks are caused by user error (donning or care).
 
I have been diving dry suit for 27 years now so I will throw my two cents in. Stoo is right, cost isn't as important to me as fit and features. I service my own and am too cheap to buy retail so a dealer nearby isn't important. For a tough suit that will stand up to a little owner abuse I would go neoprene. I still have my original Uni-Suit that I dove in 27 years ago and it was used then. I haven't dove in it for years but dug it out last week and she seems fine. I dive now (and have for 15 or so years) with an older style Viking and love the suit. Pretty tough suit. My friend still dives in his OS System that he got 20+ years ago and they were cheap at the time. Mine did not last that long but we have different habits ( he takes good care of his stuff, I don't). I would look at features and decide the type of person I am. Dry suits require much more care than wet suits (that should get me in trouble here). If your a little lax, like me, go tough. Also, features I look for are entry. I have a bad shoulder and my Uni is pretty tough to deal with (Zipper starts in back, runs through your crotch and ends at your breast. Real interesting don and doff procedure) I also like a zipper for "cooling" purpose placed low and across the front of the suit :wink:. Hope this helps.
 
and, after deciding on a suit, you get to decide on seals......

15 years ago I got a dry suit. Man how times have changed..... You will get a ton of recommendations. Best I can tell you is buy from a reputable source. If its a lemon, it might make things easier to address.

Other than that, set a budget, and follow through.

I wasn't so lucky. Due to my size, I had no options but full custom. The field was limited, and then regionally there were challenges too. The suit I got was the only option I had for a large geographical radius, and I even had to cross a border to get it.....
 
I've used at least 10 different dry suits over the years. And they are not all the same. I've used bilam, trilam, and neoprene. My favorites have always been the neoprene. They fit better, but out a lot of gas movement in the suit, and they keep me warmer, the last being the major factor. That being said, not all neoprene dry suits are the same. I've owned 3 different brands and had issues with two of them. The suit I'm currently diving is by far the best I've used. It is the only suit in which I've never had a leak that wasn't user error, even after a year and 200 dives! I can't say that about any other suit I've owned. I'm on my 2nd suit only because it was time to replace the wrist seals and I didn't want to be without it so I just bought a 2nd one and am making my other one a backup. It's also on the low side of your price range (you can actually get it a little less than your range). I asked a well known dry suit repair guy who does a lot of repair which suit he recommends. His answer was the cheapest you can find because they will all eventually leak and need repair. I had been ready to buy a $3000 suit until then. That said, I don't dive the cheapest suit out there but it also hasn't needed any repair, simply regular maintenance.
 
In our house, we have a Bare compressed neo, a bunch of Fusions, a DUI and two Santis. Here's my bottom line on price: You pay for materials, workmanship, and detailing.

Suits which are made of cheaper materials are less expensive -- so, for example, bilam suits are cheaper than trilam. They're also more fragile and less durable. Suits which aren't very tailored are generally cheaper, because they require less time and effort to make. The inexpensive USIA suits are like this. The disadvantage of a less tailored cut is more extra fabric that can either trap air or create folds that make for more drag.

Suits which are custom-cut are more expensive, for obvious reasons. In addition, the high end suits tend to have a lot of nice details -- my Santi suit has a pocket in the front of the suspenders which is lined with something waterproof and is perfectly positioned to put your car keys in AND reach them by only having to unzip the suit a few inches. It has loops on the boots to make them easier to pull on. It has beautiful, big pockets with flap stiffeners, and my name embroidered on one of them . . .

On the other hand, my Fusions, which cost half as much, are perfectly serviceable suits. They're not tailored at all, but the outer, compressive skin takes care of that, and avoids air trapping and surface folds. They're harder to get into and harder to zip, but both things are perfectly manageable. They're VERY durable -- hard to hurt, and easy to fix if you manage it.

Laminate suits are lighter and dry faster than compressed or full neoprene suits, but they require more insulation under them. Full neo suits lose insulation with depth, as wetsuits do; compressed neo and laminate suits don't, because they're more dependent on the undergarments, and the compressed neo doesn't compress further in the water.

I guess I'd say cheap suits are cheap for a reason; middle of the road suits are serviceable but lack the niceties of the high end suits. If you don't dive constantly or you aren't an impatient or picky person, you'll probably be perfectly happy with a suit in the $1500 to $2000 range. If you really like nice things, or if you dive enough so that you just don't want to put up with ANY inconvenience, go for the high end stuff, and, from watching my friends around here for the last eight years, I'd recommend Santi.

EDIT: Just wanted to add, after reading Rob's post, that what material you choose depends on the water temperatures you're looking at. He's diving in water in the mid to high 60's; full neoprene suits don't cut it very well in Puget Sound, in the mid 40's, unless you stay shallow.
 
I have to disagree with you last statement Lynne. I've been in Lake Michigan in 42 degree water and the only parts of me that got cold were my fingers and lips.
 
I agree with the over-all consensus that neoprene suits perform better and price does not equal quality.

In my quest to find the "best drysuit" for arctic/ice conditions I have blown a fair share of money (and time) into bizarre experiment. I have test dove a whole load of suits in cold quarries during snowy winters until people thought that I was a nutcase. Then I have purchased some expensive ones and sold them on ebay after test diving some cheaper models that out-performed those expensive ones. In my experience, I have found no co-relation between drysuit quality and price. In fact some of the higher-priced ones are really messy and miserable to dive in. This should not be surprising because besides quality and construction, there are various other things that go into setting the price for a suit.


Example:


Two brands are made in the same factory. One brand has decided it wants to give a lifetime warranty on them and the other brand has decided it will give only one year warranty. The first brand will sell for a higher price though the suit is the same. Then the same second brand has also decided that it wants to advertise on magazines and flashy publications. The advertising costs would get added to the already higher price. So when you jump in the water with two brands you will not notice any difference as they are the exact same suit. But if, in your lifetime, the suit ever develops a leak that is so big that you can not patch it up in your garage and also so big that your LDS will not charge a few bucks to patch it up then the extra thousand you spent in the beginning of the purchase may step in to help.

Personally, I do not give importance to warranties. If a shell suit leaks, you can patch it yourself pretty easily. My LDS will charge a very small price to patch leaks in shell suits. In neoprene suits leaks are really not common so the whole warranty thing becomes even less of an issue for me personally.
 
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