What do you wear to stay warm in drysuit/cold water? - two questions

[jwalko]

I'm researching different types of layering and different undergarments. I'm thinking of buying a new undergarment and new thermals. I grew up skiing, so layering is habit. In the past, I was layering thermals with an older Whites undergarment (not sure of type...but fleece and relatively thick) with a fleece jacket over it. This was OK...but I would get cold after about 30-40 minutes in 40 degree water. I normally keep the suit pretty tight...with only enough air to eliminate the squeeze.

This weekend I tried out a Weezle Extreme. I found it too bulky, and felt like it trapped a good bit of air....too much. At the end of the dive, on safety stop, I thought I had vented all the excess air...but after a minute, I was still getting air out of the suit.

I also felt I needed too much weight with it. It was strange in that I had a hard time initially sinking, but once I got to about 5 feet, would sink rather quickly. This worried my about safety stop at end of dive, and if I would have enough weight. So I added some more weight and ended up being over-weighted for most of the dive. I think the initial difficulty was also the result of trapped air.

I don't know how much warmer I was...50 minute dive in 40 degree water...but if I put that much air in with my old set up, I'm sure I'd me warm anyway. I didn't like the bulkiness of the Weezle.

I've been looking at Whites MK3 and at Fourth Element. I'm interested in what you dive to stay warm. I've heard great things about 4th element, but wow...the price...a little sticker shock there. Recommendations would be appreciated.

Second question. I have a dry glove system...but my hands still get cold. On the 50 minute dive this weekend, my hands were hurting by the end of the dive. I'm using 40 gm Thinsulate gloves (just regular outdoor gloves...bought at Bass Pro Shops). One thing I noticed is if I get my hands higher than my body, I get some air into the gloves...but when my hands are lower, the air is forced out...and the end result is cold hands. By the end of the dive, it didn't make any difference if I had air in my gloves or not...hands were freezing. What gloves (if any) should I be looking at to try to keep my hands warm?

Thanks;

John

 

[TSandM]

Well, I'll start by saying that nothing I've ever tried will keep me really warm for more than 40 minutes in 40 degree water. I'm good for 45 - 50 minutes at 45, and I've done up to 80 minutes at 55, but 40 is just darned cold.

Lead is warmth and vice versa. Insulation works by trapping air, and air has to be sunk, so it's pretty difficult to find effective insulation for very cold water that isn't going to require a lot of ballast. That said, my Whites Thermal Fusion is almost as warm as my MK3, and seems to need a couple of pounds less. It's also less bulky and more mobile. I like it a lot for use under my Fusion, where bulk is important, but I've found myself going back to the MK3 with my Santi suit, because I like the pockets and the rear zipper (not an issue for men, I would imagine).


I have found that the key to warm hands is a) keeping them dry, and b) keeping my core warm. I use cheap polarfleece gloves (the kind you can buy in the grocery store in the wintertime) under my dry gloves. My hands get cold when they get squeezed, but they no longer get numb. It sounds as though you are using dry gloves which remove the suit seal itself. Be aware that a torn glove is a flooded suit with that arrangement.

 

[jwalko]

I have found that the key to warm hands is a) keeping them dry, and b) keeping my core warm. I use cheap polarfleece gloves (the kind you can buy in the grocery store in the wintertime) under my dry gloves. My hands get cold when they get squeezed, but they no longer get numb. It sounds as though you are using dry gloves which remove the suit seal itself. Be aware that a torn glove is a flooded suit with that arrangement.

Lynn: The suit still has wrist seals, but I put a piece of rope between the seal and my wrist. I was amazed at how well this worked yesterday...perhaps too well...because I was able to get air into my gloves (something I wasn't able to do before with thinner straws between wrist and seal)...but as soon as I was horizontal in the water, the air would migrate back out of the gloves...squeezing my hands and making for a cold dive. I'm almost wondering if any glove would help any more than what I have. The gloves I use are pretty warm on the surface..and even tolerable when wet...but didn't seem to do much to keep my hands warm yesterday.

John

 

[Agility]

I use thin plastic tubes under the seals and I use the Dryglove system.
You have to keep your hands in front of you to prevent the gloves from squeezing.
Have you considered heated gloves?
My buddy yesterday wore Heizteufel - Unterzieh-Handschuh in 8°C water we did two dives 54 and 43 minutes with 45 minutes SI

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

I hate those tubes...just use your thumbloops. That is enough to break the seal and let air move back and forth, but not be troublesome with it being so wide open that it moves like crazy back and forth. Plus, you can never forget them Just take them off your thumb, and don't stuff them thru the seal. Even with a glove failure, you will barely have a damp wrist.

Call me on the undies if you have chance and I can go over a ton of info. We gotta get you warm before we get out on the dive boats

 

[Wayne at DiveSeekers]

I get cold easily and I just did a 2 hour dive locally (Dutch Springs) and water temp was 41 degrees. I dive a JJ Rebreather so that helps ! I think the two warmest undergarments on the market are the fourth element Halo and the Santi BZ400. You have to understand, that with everything in life, there are give and takes. If you want to be warm, then you will have layers and with the warmer undergarments, they will be more buoyant. I have been doing 80 - 120 min dives everyday since April 1st (no Joke) and what I have been using is the fourth element drybase (top & bottom), Santi heated vest (not turning on til the 60min mark), fourth element Xerotherm XT250 (top & bottom) and Santi BZ200 undergarnment w/Santi Socks, w/pull over drygloves and Si-Tech Thinsulate Liner. Key on keeping hands warm is allowing more air in to glove, I will also use a little more air in drysuit than normal and that's what works for me. If you want to do the longer dives in colder waters, you need the right gear to do it. If I were to try and get past the 2 hour mark, i would be swaping out the BZ200 for Halo 3d or BZ400 and keeping everything else. Of course I would be adding more weight

 

[jwalko]

Thanks everyone for the answers. Mike...was going to call you today, but got busy and the day got away from me. Will call tomorrow

John

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

I get cold easily and I just did a 2 hour dive locally (Dutch Springs) and water temp was 41 degrees. I dive a JJ Rebreather so that helps ! I think the two warmest undergarments on the market are the fourth element Halo and the Santi BZ400. You have to understand, that with everything in life, there are give and takes. If you want to be warm, then you will have layers and with the warmer undergarments, they will be more buoyant. I have been doing 80 - 120 min dives everyday since April 1st (no Joke) and what I have been using is the fourth element drybase (top & bottom), Santi heated vest (not turning on til the 60min mark), fourth element Xerotherm XT250 (top & bottom) and Santi BZ200 undergarnment w/Santi Socks, w/pull over drygloves and Si-Tech Thinsulate Liner. Key on keeping hands warm is allowing more air in to glove, I will also use a little more air in drysuit than normal and that's what works for me. If you want to do the longer dives in colder waters, you need the right gear to do it. If I were to try and get past the 2 hour mark, i would be swaping out the BZ200 for Halo 3d or BZ400 and keeping everything else. Of course I would be adding more weight

\

Damn Wayne...that's a lot of layering lol!! We gotta fatten you up

 

[bradells]

I've been looking at Whites MK3 and at Fourth Element.

Thanks;

John

I started diving with the MK2. Was thoroughly cold in 40F waters. Added another layer and found it to constrictive with my fusion.

I went and got the Fusion undergarment (XX/XXX, I wear a L/XL shell), and I'm toasty warm, even after an hour in the same 40F water, and even after having a small breach of liquid on my last dive, I was warm (whole suit was soaked by the end of the dive). Bigger inrush breaches obviously are colder.

My only problem, is finding something for my feet. At the 60min mark, they are staring to chill down with a pair of wool socks in boots.

BRad

 

[Michael Gerhartz]

Just to add my 0.02 here. SANTI also has the heated undergarment. Available as a full suit based on the BZ400 and can be used in combination with heated gloves as well. That usually works very well.