Newb: Suit(s) for Riviera Maya, Mexico?

[stuartv]

I'm in the process of getting OW certified. I don't own any wetsuit yet. I am planning a trip to the Caribbean in December, where I will dive in the Cozumel area, including doing a cenote dive. I have read that the cenotes are typically 76 degrees and the OW temps generally range from 78 to 84.

I would kind of like to have my own wetsuit to take, instead of having to rent something that doesn't fit well and is PPI (Pre-Peed In).

From the water temps, I was initially thinking I might be comfortable in just a 2.5 or 3mm shorty. But then the cenote temps make me think I might want more than that. OTOH, I was reading some reviews and looking at a 3/2 full suit and one reviewer said he loves his but it's too warm for Caribbean diving.

So, I started thinking about maybe getting a shorty and then one of those 1mm jumpsuits to wear over or under it. Or a long sleeve shorty and a farmer john. Or... or... or...

I started reading stuff here and found a post that referred me over to Wetwear. I read what they have to say about suit configurations and temps. It seems the Wetwear always recommends a full wetsuit and then putting a shorty on over the jumpsuit, if more warmth is desired. (The "over" part surprised me. I'd have thought wearing the shorty under the jumpsuit would be warmer, but anyway...)

The shorty appeals because it would be easier to pack for a flight to MX. The LS shorty appeals because it would give me more protection from stings/scrapes than a normal shorty and because my sizing is funny. I tend to wear XL jackets and L pants. So, a LS shorty sized to fit my upper body, eventually mated to a FJ (or even just pants?) sized to fit my lower body might give me the best overall fit. The full jumpsuit appeals for the protection from scrapes and stings.

I'm to the point of thinking I should either pick a LS shorty that is thick enough to be warm enough on its own (3mm? 5mm?), or pick a full jumpsuit that is thinner but would be equally warm due to more coverage.

If I go by what Wetwear recommends, I guess I would go with either a 3mm or 2mm full jumpsuit.

Wetwear - How Thick A Wetsuit Do I Need?

Any thoughts anyone can share would definitely be appreciated.

If it helps give me advice, I can say that I've done a lot of motorcycling in cold weather and my legs are generally the last thing to get cold. And it has to get pretty darn cold before my legs start to feel cold. OTOH, I have a full electric liner these days for when it's cold on the bike. And, when riding with buddies, I am usually the first one to turn on the electrics. But, is that because I get cold more easily than them? Or just that I choose to pamper myself with warmth when they are being tough guys and telling me they're not cold?

Oh, and I went to Maui last year in February and went out on a dive boat. They gave me a full wetsuit to wear, but I don't know what the thickness was. I snorkeled in it while divers did one dive. Then we moved to a different spot and I did a discovery dive for most of one bottle, at 25 - 30 feet. I was never cold while in the water, but by the time I got back on the boat after the discovery dive, I was starting to feel a little chilly. But, it was rough weather and a little drizzly that day, so I was inclined to wear a fleece or something when in street clothes anyway. I don't know if any of that helps, since I don't know what kind of suit I was wearing then.

 

[TSandM]

I think you'd be fine in a 3 mil suit. Water temperatures are in the high 70's in the ocean, and 75 in the cenotes. The Cenote tours are short, though; generally you are out of the water within 45 minutes.

I hope you are going to get some diving experience before the trip. I do NOT recommend the Cenote dives for brand new divers. First off, being under an overhead is not the place for someone who has no idea how he deals with a problem, and secondly, it's unfair to the caves.

 

[stuartv]

I think you'd be fine in a 3 mil suit. Water temperatures are in the high 70's in the ocean, and 75 in the cenotes. The Cenote tours are short, though; generally you are out of the water within 45 minutes.

I hope you are going to get some diving experience before the trip. I do NOT recommend the Cenote dives for brand new divers. First off, being under an overhead is not the place for someone who has no idea how he deals with a problem, and secondly, it's unfair to the caves.

Thanks, TSandM. I have pretty much concluded that a 3mm jumpsuit would be sufficient. What I'm really wondering about now is if a 3mm LS Shorty would be enough. In particular, if I got one from Wetwear that uses the NCN neoprene, so it won't really compress at depth.

How much different does it make to diver warmth to have the extra coverage from mid-thigh to ankle?

As for the cenotes... well, I'm afraid you probably won't approve of my plan. I expect to do my 4 OW dives for my certification, and then do 2 reef dives in Riviera Maya and possibly 2 reef dives on Cozumel and then do the cenote dives. I'm planning to do them each with one non-dive day in between. And I don't know which cenote I will dive, but I've been reading up on them and I will pick one of the ones that is rated for Beginners.

I assume you know this, but the cenote dives for non-Cavers have rules that I can't go further than 200 feet from the entrance and I can't go out of sight of where there is light coming in.

If you still think I can't handle it, all I can add is that I have raced motorcycles on and off for 17 years. 160MPH into Turn 1 at Daytona. That kind of racing. Including in the rain. And I've won championships. I am pretty confident in myself that whatever happens, I won't wig out and panic. And I also will not proceed, if I start into something like that and decide it doesn't feel right. And yes, I do realize that diving and literally rubbing elbows at 160 aren't the same thing. That was just one example to try and convey something of my personality - which is that I'm just not the type of person to freak out, panic, or otherwise lose my sh*t when things go pear-shaped. Even when my life is in serious danger. Been there. Did not panic. I'm also well beyond doing things because my ego won't let me back out. I have no problem saying to anyone "nope. I changed my mind. I don't think I'm ready for that." If that's how I feel. I really don't give a rip about whether anyone else thinks I chickened out or whatever.


Anyway.... thank you again for the confirmation that a 3mm jumpsuit should be fine. Any thoughts on a 3mm LS Shorty for the same dives?

 

[TSandM]

Stuart, I am an avid cave diver, so yes, I am familiar with the tourist cenotes. And I am also well aware that most guiding operations will take anybody with an OW certification in those places, and I have seen some of those divers.

You may well be a low anxiety trait person, who copes with everything in your stride. But will you have good horizontal trim and excellent buoyancy control, as well as a keen awareness of the limits of your underwater body, so that you don't bang or scrape the formations, or kick up the silt?

I believe a thread of mine is a sticky in the Mexico forum, about diving the caverns. I encourage people to do it. They are amazing and beautiful places, and unique. I think the risks of the dives are low, if they are conducted according to the APSA rules. But I don't think the average brand new diver belongs on those tours. Unless you are fortunate enough to have an OW instructor who helps you understand buoyancy, trim, and non-silting propulsion, you just won't be able to honor the caves.

I have no idea if you could do the diving down there in a shorty. Me, I don't get in water at those temperatures in anything under a 5 mil suit any more, and I do all my cave diving in a dry suit . But a full 3 mil will be a bit more flexible suit, in terms of temperatures (better for Hawaii, for example) and I do not think it will be too hot.

 

[Peter Guy]

Stuart -- just a couple of comments:

a. You can cool down in a wetsuit if you are too warm (just pull open the top of the suit) but it is VERY hard to warm up if you are too cold so get at least a 3 mm full suit

b. I'd be quite surprised that you'll be able to pick the Cenotes in which you dive. My experience is that the shop will take you to the ones they want (and with which they may have a special relationship).

c. There are various definitions of "the cavern zone" with the 200 foot distance (vertical/horizontal) probably the most liberal. Also the ability to see daylight at all times is often very "liberally" interpreted -- as in IF you cover all lights, close your eyes for a minute you MAY be able to see some dim light in the distance! On your Cenote/Cavern tour you will be in an overhead environment and open water may be quite a ways away.

 

[rongoodman]

If I was going on the trip you describe I'd just take my 5mm suit. If you want a 3mm, though, you could plan on adding a hooded vest for cooler days or the cenotes. I wear one with my 5mm suit in the caves there, and I've never been more than a little cool on the longer dives. I wouldn't consider a shorty, or anything less than 3mm.

 

[stuartv]

Lynne (?), thank you very much for the info here and in your thread over in the MX forum! I read that whole thread. Very educational. I am very glad to have the heads up on the cenote rules and info on how to vet a guide.

As for buoyancy and trim, all I can tell you is I did one full bottle discovery dive last year in Maui. Max depth was between 25 and 30 feet. I had no trouble controlling my buoyancy. When near the bottom, I held a consistent distance from the bottom, bobbing up and down +/- 1 foot. And when we were swimming around away from the bottom, I had no trouble staying behind and level with our instructor. And horizontal at all times. I know my buoyancy control has plenty of room for improvement, but I think with 4 more dives worth of practice plus 4 more after that, in MX OW, I ought to be okay for one of the roomier cenote caverns. If I get there and get in and see that it's too tight for me and I'm going to bounce off something, I'll abort myself. I'm a firm believer in leaving things like I found them.

 

[fbk]

FWIW I wear a full length sharkskin and a 2mm shorty over... did 10 days straight of 4-5hrs per day in the Cenotes during training and was fine, but I feel the cold much less than most people I dive with. Shorty under or over doesn't matter... sometimes I wear a 2mm shorty over 3mm full wetsuit to get 5mm around the core.

I know I would not have belonged anywhere near a Cenote after only 4 dives or even 100. But you sound determined to do a guided tour, so respect them and enjoy.

 

[TSandM]

Well, just spend some time on your open water dives in Mexico, swimming close to or under structures and making sure you know where you are going and how to arrange yourself to spare your surroundings.

As I said, a lot of very novice divers do these dives. We had a couple we certified who went down to MX for their first dives out of OW, and they did Cenote dives as part of their trip. They apparently did fine (and the fellow came home hooked on caves, and wants to go on to full training). I have to say, as hard as we work to graduate divers with better skills than your average OW class, I'm glad I wasn't there to watch.

 

[stuartv]

New questions for you all. My LDS is blowing out Lavacore gear. So, now I'm thinking about getting a LC long sleeve shirt and LC pants and then getting something to go over that - like a 2.5mm shorty or a 1 or 2mm full suit.

I am also an all-weather motorcyclist, so I'm thinking having a LC shirt and pants might serve me well doing double duty as a base layer on my bike sometimes.

- Would a LC LS shirt and long pants plus a 2.5mm shorty be warm enough? I've heard/read that the LC stuff is the equivalent warmth of a 2 - 3mm neoprene wetsuit.

- Is there any particular reason I should specifically want a full jumpsuit to wear over the LC stuff versus wearing a shorty over the LC?

- Is there any reason I should consider different LC gear? Like the LC Farmer John or LC sleeveless shorty, instead of just long pants? I was thinking that the FJ plus long sleeve shirt plus a wetsuit of some kind over it would be overkill and probably too warm. I was also thinking that a sleeveless shorty would not give me the benefit of making it easier to put on a wetsuit over it. And I considered a full LC one-piece suit, but that might be too much sometimes, plus it would not be as convenient for pulling double duty on my motorcycle. It would be kind of an all-or-nothing proposition. Same reason I usually wear a 2-piece suit on my motorcycle.

I did some reading on rash guards. Being a motorcyclist, reading the term initially had me thinking a rash guard would be worn externally, to protect me or my wetsuit from, for example, having a surge push me into some rocks or something. Now I understand that a rash guard is a base layer under a wetsuit. I was figuring on wearing some of my Under Armour gear for that purpose - until I saw the LC stuff on Clearance at the LDS.

- Is it reasonable to plan to wear LC shirt and pants in lieu of a rash guard? Or will I still want to wear a rash guard under the LC stuff?

- Will wearing the LC shirt and pants make it easier, harder or no change when it comes to donning/doffing a wetsuit? I'm thinking it will make things easier, which is one reason I'm thinking of getting long sleeves and long pants for the LC gear.

- It seems like 2.5mm shorty vs 1 or 2mm full suit would be about the same, in terms of warmth. Does that sound right? If not, which should I get (to go over LC shirt/pants) for maximum warmth and/or future utility?

I am leaning towards a 2.5mm shorty for 2 reasons: One, I can get one for about $50. A 1-2mm jumpsuit looks more like $100. And, two, I'm thinking I might get more usage out of a 2.5mm shorty by itself for snorkeling. I feel like I would be more likely to take a shorty down to the beach with me to do some snorkeling than I would be likely to haul a full wetsuit along.

Oh, and one other benefit (perceived, anyway) is that I am generally not an off-the-rack fit guy. Usually, I wear an XL up top and an L for pants or shorts. One-piece motorcycle leathers tend to either be too tight around the chest or too loose around the waist and/or too baggy in the crotch/butt. So, buying separate LC shirt and pants should let me get a better fit, and I think a shorty wetsuit would possibly be easier to find a good fit for than finding a good fit in a full jumpsuit.

All that is based on my ignorance and inexperience in wearing of wetsuits, so anything you can share to set me straight would be greatly appreciated.

Finally, my other alternatives I'm considering are a 3.5mm Cressi Spring full suit for $120 or an Akona 3mm full suit for $150. I am definitely on a budget, but I would consider spending a bit more than $150 for a solution that includes the LC stuff just because of the possibility of using it on my motorcycle. I'm not yet prepared to spend $300 for a 3mm Wetwear Atlantis.