O-ring for "new-improved" Viking cuff rings???

[Stoo]

I recently took delivery of a new Santi E.Motion drysuit, here in Canada. I specified Viking Cuff Rings when I ordered it, as I had used these for 30+ years without any issues.

When the suit arrived, I was surprised to see some kind of bayonet mount. I brought this "error" to the attention of both the dealer and the Canadian Distributor and neither of them had a clue as to what these rings were. Eventually, the distributor concluded that these were the "new-improved" Viking cuffs, and he further told me that the "classic" Viking rings were no longer available... which I don't think is true.

Anyway, he offered to replace these rings with the classic rings, IF I supplied the rings, for $100 + shipping both ways for a total of about $200. The problem is that I would need to take the cuffs out of my almost new Viking ProTech suit... which I don't want to do of course.

So what you say?

Well the problem with these new rings is that they rely on an o-ring to seal the glove... and this o-ring falls out and is easily lost. The dealer can't get spares, the distributor can't get spares, and the Canadian Viking distributor isn't answering emails.

After 3 trips to an industrial supply place, and 3 special orders later (these guys have been great), I have a bag of o-rings that I can make work, but they aren't right. They fall out if the glove isn't locked in place, and if I have help, I can barely get the glove locked on. These rings that I'm using are 98mm x 3mm Viton orings. 2mm rings are too thin, 99 mm rings won't fit and so on.

Has anyone had any similar issues and successfully resolved it? To confuse things further, these Viking Rings seem to come in three sizes, and nobody can tell me what size they are.

I'm about to put this brand new suit on eBay for this and other reasons, but I can't do it with a clear conscience until I resolve this problem... For all the rave reviews of this suit, I am going back to Viking.

Any and all suggestions appreciated!

Thanks!

Stu

 

[Brandon]

No, keep the bayonet rings! Those are the good ones!

Bob Thiry over @ comdive.com (and Bob3 here on the board) can get the o-rings for you. They come in two types basically - one that is a little bit bigger and will provide a -very- firm seal (as in, close the glove all the way and you're going to need a tool to unstick it; it's designed for hazmat diving); and a slightly smaller ring that provides a more "reasonable" seal. I use the softer/smaller version and have 0 issues or complaints with it.

The sizes are:

5-031 size in 45 - 60 Durometer
2-154 size in 60 - 70 Durometer

I also wrote the install guide here on Scubaboard, should you ever need it.

-B

 

[theod]

I'm trying to decide if I want to get an emotion with the viking rings installed. I looked at a demo "arm" at a shop that seemed to have a bayonet system glued directly to the arm's cuff. Of the three systems that I looked at (Si tech antares, Si tech ring and viking bayonet) The bayonet seemed to be the easiest to get the glove on with out much fuss. But i'm trying to figure out if the bayonet system has replaceable seals or not. I was almost positive that the one I looked at was glued to the suit. Can you post some pictures of your emotion with the viking rings and the oring problem you are talking about?
Take care,

 

[JohnN]

No, keep the bayonet rings! Those are the good ones!

Bob Thiry over @ comdive.com (and Bob3 here on the board) can get the o-rings for you. They come in two types basically - one that is a little bit bigger and will provide a -very- firm seal (as in, close the glove all the way and you're going to need a tool to unstick it; it's designed for hazmat diving); and a slightly smaller ring that provides a more "reasonable" seal. I use the softer/smaller version and have 0 issues or complaints with it.

The sizes are:

5-031 size in 45 - 60 Durometer
2-154 size in 60 - 70 Durometer

I also wrote the install guide here on Scubaboard, should you ever need it.

-B

+1 for Bob3 He's a great source for the Viking rings (at very competitive prices) as well as PB-300 (OS Systems) glue.

---------- Post added December 11th, 2014 at 08:21 AM ----------

I'm trying to decide if I want to get an emotion with the viking rings installed. I looked at a demo "arm" at a shop that seemed to have a bayonet system glued directly to the arm's cuff. Of the three systems that I looked at (Si tech antares, Si tech ring and viking bayonet) The bayonet seemed to be the easiest to get the glove on with out much fuss. But i'm trying to figure out if the bayonet system has replaceable seals or not. I was almost positive that the one I looked at was glued to the suit. Can you post some pictures of your emotion with the viking rings and the oring problem you are talking about?
Take care,

Check the link provided by Brandon. Mine use different colored rings that form a compression fit on the wrist seals and are not glued

 

[Brandon]

But i'm trying to figure out if the bayonet system has replaceable seals or not.

It is possible to glue the viking bayonet rings directly to the suit, but most install them on an existing latex cuff.

The bayonet rings are the only removable glove system I'd consider using without seals (and I have); they are very unlikely to leak if installed/used correctly.

 

[Stoo]

YOU GUYS ROCK~

And yes I like the mount if I could just sort out the o-rings and stick them in somehow! I will definitely contact this Bob fella~

Theod, I wrestled with the same question, and ultimately opted for the simple system that I was familiar with which I now know to be a Viking Classic rings. I actually put a post on here about the Antares rings, as well as putting the question to my Facebook diving gang and I think that universally people were not keen on them. The biggest problem seems to be that unless you have tiny hands, it's difficult to get your hand through the ring. The second concern was that the overall construction seemed to be a bit flimsy. For both of those reasons I opted against that system. Even with the new Viking Bayonet System, I find that the rings are a bit small for my hands. And I don't think I have especially large hands. The upside of the rings being very small is that it makes for a nice compact system on the outside too... Which is handy for getting your hands into small places. If I can get this o-ring situation sorted I think I'll be fairly happy with them.

As for how they are mounted, the outer ring is glued to the suit, and there is an inner ring that locks in the wrist seal. This is the same concept as the Viking classic rings but similarly the "new and improved" system isn't, IMHO nearly as robust as the original. I opted for the Si-tech latex wrist seals. Here again, the small size of the ring comes into play. I find that when I am removing the suit it's difficult to get my other hand inside the ring to free up the wrist seal. If I just yank my hand out, there is a reasonable likelihood that the wrist seal will come out of the cuff ring and stay around my wrist. I have about 45 dives on this suit now, and it seems to be less of a problem now than when the suit was new. I chalk this up to me getting better at it, to my trimming the seals so they weren't quite as snug, (after all the glove forms the seal anyway) and the fact that the silicon is a bit less slippery than it was when I first got it.

EDIT: I just called the local industrial supply shop… the one who has worked diligently trying to find a replacement 0-ring for me… and he said that that second size of O-ring that you mentioned up above is an absolutely standard O-ring which they carry all the time. The challenge he had was trying to figure out what size was in there on something which may been have been squished a few times and probably wasn't accurately sized. I'll pop in and see him on Monday and then report back on my findings.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[Stoo]

The sizes are:

5-031 size in 45 - 60 Durometer
2-154 size in 60 - 70 Durometer

Well I said I'd follow up!

So I took this info to my local industrial bits guy... They had both of them in stock... But neither is right! One of them was way too small in diameter.. It's maybe 2" tops, and also too thin. The other was about the right diameter (although I didn't try it) but the thickness of the ring is too small. It's more like the 2mm o-rings I had tried, and the cuff rings "bottom out" before the glove portion engages the o-ring.

I am now the proud owner of 42 o-rings, none of which fit, and that have cost about $144.00 to buy (special order, bags of 10), 4 hours of travel time over 4 trips and I still can't really use these gloves. Oh, I also had to buy a new pair of 5mm wetgloves from 4th Element.. Very nice. (Did I mention that the only reason that I ordered this Santi is that in my old age, I have developed pretty serious osteo-arthritis in my hands. I was looking for a lighter-duty suit that would be easier to don than my Viking Protec (which I intended to sell), and lighter to fly with.) Having to go back to wet-gloves after 30+ years of diving with dry hands wasn't really part of the plan...) This has taken on a certain comical feel... Ugh.

I'll try Bob!

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

Ummmmmm, so you just want some rings?
Si Tech Rubber Pullover Dry Glove Rings | Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL - Dive Right in Scuba

I got the easy button right there. We are out of stock for a couple weeks, but we should have another 50 pair soon.