Shell vs. Neoprene Drysuit

[ScoobieDooo]

Hi,
I am looking at a BARE D6 Neoprene drysuit. I have had a Trilam suit before and it was OK, but am considering a neoprene this time instead. Cost is one factor.

I definately have decided on a BARE model and was wondering if anyone could point out some differances between them. I'm aware with a shell suit one wear's an insulating under garment, they dry quicker, and are easier to pack for travel.

What are any advantages of neoprene (other than cost)? I'm aware that neoprene requires more weights than a shell.

Can anyone who uses a neoprene suit tell me THEIR thoughts on such?

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

compressed neopreme doesn't required more weight that a shell suit. The shell suits are cold, you can have them. I use my Whites 45th anniversary suit in temps up to 70 and down to 35 degrees. Put enough undies on to be warm in 35 degrees and I'll venture you'll have even more weight on than I do with my neopreme.

 

[ScoobieDooo]

Al,
Thanks for the input. So I gather no under garments are necessary for insulation with neoprene suits?

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I have found my weight requirements are nearly identical for my trilam and 7mm neoprene dry suits.

The neoprene suit swims better in the water with less drag as a generally snugger fit is possible with no restriction in motion. They feel much like a wet suit in the water and you end up having to add less air less often as you have less air lofted in the undergarments and neoprene suits do not produce the same sharp, pinching, type of squeeze as shell suits - it is more of a gentle hug. So between the inherent insulation of the suit, the lighter undergarments and the freindlier squeeze traits, you need less air in the suit for equivalent comfort. I never worry about going into a head down positon in a good fitting neoprene suit as the air shifting is minimal, something I could never say about even a good fitting trilam.

For undergarments I usually use a set of polyropolyne sweat pants and sweat shirt in very cold water (<40 degrees), cotton sweat pants and a polypropolene sweat shirt in slightly warmer water 40-50 degrees and cotton sweat pants and a t-shirt in warmer water (50-60 degrees). Warmer than 60 requires a move to a 7mm semi-dry as I tend to overheat in a neoprene dry suit.

Warm water over 60 degrees would be one area when a trilam would be an advantage as you could move to very light underwear. But why bother with the expense, drag, and genral inconvenience when the water is warm enough of a wet suit?

 

[slowhands]

Hi,
I am looking at a BARE D6 Neoprene drysuit. I have had a Trilam suit before and it was OK, but am considering a neoprene this time instead. Cost is one factor.

I definitely have decided on a BARE model and was wondering if anyone could point out some differances between them. I'm aware with a shell suit one wear's an insulating under garment, they dry quicker, and are easier to pack for travel.

What are any advantages of neoprene (other than cost)? I'm aware that neoprene requires more weights than a shell.

Can anyone who uses a neoprene suit tell me THEIR thoughts on such?

Bare makes 3 thicknesses of neoprene drysuits: compressed 2mm in the XCD2 models, 4mm in the CD4 models, and 6mm in the D6 models. The thicker neoprene models will be warmer without undergarments, but will tend to compress more with depth and require more weight. The thinner neoprene models have better flexibility, require more insulation, are less durable and of course compress less at depth and require less weight. I personally would opt for the compressed neoprene, mainly easy donning and for flexibility.

Check out the Bare website:
http://www.bare-wetsuits.com/bareshop/divedept.asp?dept_id=210

Here are some recent reviews of the Bare suits:
http://www.scubadiving.com/gear/exposure_protection/high-end_dry/6/
http://www.scubadiving.com/gear/exposure_protection/cut_&_dry:_13_dry_suits_for_under_$1,000/7/

 

[DA Aquamaster]

The argument that thicker neoprene compresses more at depth than thinner neoprene or compressed neoprene is technically correct, but is meaningless when you look at the big picture. If you have thinner neoprene or compressed neoprene and have to wear heavier underwear lofting more air, you are trading comaratively harder to compress neoprene for readily compressible air. So rather than adding a little air as you descend to make up for suit compression, you add a great deal of air to maintain the air volume inside the suit as you descend.

In short, suit compression does not impart the bouyancy control demands one would intially think. In addition, the overall weighting requirements differ very little between a conventional shell suit, a neoprene suit and a crushed neoprene suit when all are insulated for similar warmth in identical water temps.

The flexibility issue is similarly subect to a systemic view. A thinner neoprene or compressed neoprene suit may be more flexible by itself but the true measure depends on it's flexibility with the heavier underwear required. Limb movement often forces the insulation to be compressed and this results in additional work that must be done to move in the suit. The amount of work consequently required with a shell suit heavy undergarment combination is equal to or even in excess of the work required to move in a neoprene suit with much thinner undergarments.

 

[ScoobieDooo]

Slowhands,
Thanks,
I normally don't put a lot of stock in Rodale's tests because of biases, and take their test results with a 'grain of salt.' The D7 does look good, however...

The D7 is what I am after - I don't want to have to wear an insulating layer underneath my neoprene suit. My Trilam suit with underwear was pretty bulky - and now we're talking a $1200 (or more) shell + $100+ insulating undergarment as well.

As DA Aqua Master states I think the compress-ability is an over-rated issue. I don't want to have to have a suit that requires an insulation layer under it - that is THE factor thats keeping me from going with a Trilam suit again.

I think I've pretty much made my decision to go with the D6 or D7 already...and if I purchase from a Canadian dealer I can enjoy the Canadian to US Dollar exchange rate as well.

Thanks...

 

[matt_unique]

....I don't want to have to have a suit that requires an insulation layer under it - that is THE factor thats keeping me from going with a Trilam suit again.....QUOTE]

What temps (at depth) will you be diving? A neoprene suit allows for less thermals but unless you are diving really warm water (say 60 degrees or warmer) you will need them. Everyone has their own tolerance of course.

--Matt

 

[Detonate]

Between a 7mm and a 2mm Compressed. I greatly prefer the compressed. They feel a lot more comfortable, both on the surface, and at depth.

I've yet to try a shell dry suit.

 

[vetdiver]

Just wanted to say - as I have said in previous threads - I love my 7 mm neoprene (Bare D6). I wear thin undergarments (Bare comfort extreme) and can get away with pretty much nothing besides shorts and a sports top during the summer months. The bottom line - I am warm and do not have to figure out thickness of undergarments or anything else. Not much changes with the seasons - I am drysuit on, in the water. My favorite thing - never has body warmth been a factor for me, and I am a pretty thin girl diving in water temps as low as 35 degrees. (I am only limited by my hands, in fact, and I may get dry gloves next year to fix that right up.)

I haven't had any major problems with buoyancy or suit compression. I know you guys are constantly going back and forth over the pros and cons and whatnot - I just don't really see what's so awful about neoprene! Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who loves my neoprene suit...and then I look at my freezing cold husband diving in his dui trilam, and I smile...

I'd also like to say that cost was not a big factor for me - I'd have sprung for a shell suit - and I am glad I didn't.

Good luck making your decision.