Full foot fins with boots???

[fishboots]

I am thinking about purchasing a pair of oversize Oceanic Caribe or Aeris Velocity full foot fins, but wear them with neoprene boots (3 mil). Both of these fins seem to review well, and are lighter, faster, and more manouverable than their adjustable counterparts.....in addition to the fact that they are a lot more affordable.

The only info I could find on the subject was a scubadiving mag review...

"We tried an experiment. Two testers wore booties inside two models of full-foots and made several speed runs. They had to use slightly larger sizes to accommodate the booties, but the fins seemed to be otherwise identical to the smaller sizes they had worn without booties earlier. In particular, the blade sizes looked the same.

The result? The speeds were virtually the same with booties and without, for both testers and both pairs of fins. Wearing booties inside the fins seemed to make no difference.

This suggests that eliminating the mushy booties is not the real reason for the full-foot advantage. Their light weight and the fact that they cup the heel are probably more important."

Any thoughts?

[wunat]

I am not sure why they actually thought about wearing boots for fullfoot fins. I don't personally dive fullfoot but many around me does. Most people around me wears a socks to ease the friction of the pockets against their feet. Many simply went ahead with bare foot. In this case, not having to put on an extra pair of boot before getting into the fin do provide an advantage....................especially in cases where you need to rush and get into water (eg. rescue and etc.).

[pescador775]

Truthfully, I have not seen anyone go "barefoot" since the 50's when the Voit Viking was a popular fin. I and all my friends, I'm speaking of the west coast here, but other climes as well, wear boots inside their Cressi Gara's, Dessault/Sporasub long fins, etc. You know, it is no disgrace to ask, even that darn Scubalab has asked this question, about boots in full foot, closed heal fins. It is puzzling to me. I guess that none of their crews know anything about spearfishing and free diving, very, very strange for them to be ignorant about this. By all means, wear a sock or boot inside your full foot flivers. You must use a tall boot or short, tight fitting sock. Socks are specially designed for this purpose, for use in closed heal fins. That's what they are made for, nothing else. They employ a tight elastic in the opening. The IST is best. With boots, you are on your own, most are OK.

[scubatoys]

I've heard that's very popular in Japan. When we got in the Full Foot Bio Fins I was freaking out about the sizing. 7-8 they call X-Small?? A 9-10 is small to medium?? So I called them up and they explained it is popular to wear neoprene socks or light weight boots with them and their sizing is based on that - so while normally a X-small would be around a size 4-5, but by the time you wear boots, you need about a 7-8.

So what you're looking to do is not to radical... just not common here.

[pescador775]

Apollo knows nothing about sizing. Yes, it is easy to interpret the intent behind their misguided foot pocket designs but who needs it? A size "medium" bio uni fin will fit "bigfoot". The footpockets have a generic shape which is to say they could fit a human foot or gorilla foot equally well. That is to say, they fit neither very well. Moreover, a size small-medium uni fin, which is what the average guy would wear with a sock, has a blade about 4 inches shorter than the standard open heel Bio Fin Pro. Geez, another clusterflop. The UNI is just unacceptable, period. Apollo, a word: stick to your open heel fins, you are out of your depth with the Full Foot designs.

The Italians know how to make fine shoes, and FINS. The footpocket of the Italian made Oceanic Caribe looks like an expensive shoe glued to a leaf. The fit is wonderful, easy to interpret as to size, without phoning the company in advance, and the performance is better than the Apollo UNI, and at 1/3 THE PRICE.

I've heard that's very popular in Japan. When we got in the Full Foot Bio Fins I was freaking out about the sizing. 7-8 they call X-Small?? A 9-10 is small to medium?? So I called them up and they explained it is popular to wear neoprene socks or light weight boots with them and their sizing is based on that - so while normally a X-small would be around a size 4-5, but by the time you wear boots, you need about a 7-8.

So what you're looking to do is not to radical... just not common here.

[scubatoys]

The Italians know how to make fine shoes, and FINS.

It's just unfortunate the Italians can't make a blade design that comes close to the apollo splits. Their hinge technology worked out so poorly in all the tests against the splits. Perhaps they should have paid the royalty instead of try to stand on their reputation of the Mares and Dacor names... we kinda' see how that worked out.

But you're right... they do make fins that look nice.

[pescador775]

My, my. Let's take a look at tests of the Mares avanti-tre priced at $45 from the discount chain, Leisurepro. This fin produced 3.1 mph compared to the 2.9 mph generated by the Apollo Uni. The Uni was a laggard in overall scores. The authority for this information are the six testers employed as volunteers by Scubalab. People with impecable reputations, well known in academic and diving circles. What is your reputation? Never mind. Every test done since 2003 has shown that even the Apollo bio pro can be matched by several relatively cheap Italian fins. This is not to say that the Apollo open heel is lacking. It is a very expensive but high performance fin suitable for tank divers. I use them and am satisfied that they are a good tank fin when used with thick boots and astute selection of size. The Uni is another matter. Apollo showed incredible lack of market awareness in designing the foot pocket and blade. They had a chance to make a statement to the world of freediving, a world wide market, and blew it. I guess the Euro version of the Scubapro twin speed, full foot, will have to fill the void. Jim Greer's tests showed that this fin was faster and tested lower air consumption than even the Apollo bio pro.

It's just unfortunate the Italians can't make a blade design that comes close to the apollo splits. Their hinge technology worked out so poorly in all the tests against the splits. Perhaps they should have paid the royalty instead of try to stand on their reputation of the Mares and Dacor names... we kinda' see how that worked out.

But you're right... they do make fins that look nice.

[mdb]

[QUOTE=pescador775]Apollo knows nothing about sizing. Yes, it is easy to interpret the intent behind their misguided foot pocket designs but who needs it? A size "medium" bio uni fin will fit "bigfoot". The footpockets have a generic shape which is to say they could fit a human foot or gorilla foot equally well. That is to say, they fit neither very well. Moreover, a size small-medium uni fin, which is what the average guy would wear with a sock, has a blade about 4 inches shorter than the standard open heel Bio Fin Pro. Geez, another clusterflop."

The Apollo bio-fin UNI was designed for divers using their normal 3-5mm+ boots. the design is for those divers who prefer to use a boot or sock to prevent abrasion, for ease of entry on rocky uneven beaches, etc. The UNI is a fin designed for Divers who want comfort and high performance while using a full foot fin designed for diving with full SCUBA equipment.

The Apollo UNI is 100% compression molded rubber. The size chart is @:
http://www.apollosportsusa.com/Produ...Biofin_UNI.htm

As you pointed out the sizing is large for those who want a light weight inexpensive fin for use w/o a boot or sock; a fin for travel and snorkeling.

Apollo has never been about marketing, just about performance, using the finest quality materials, and the most advanced design possible.

In any case, best wishes for lots of safe diving.

mdb
www.diveapollo.com

[jakubson]

I am thinking about purchasing a pair of oversize Oceanic Caribe or Aeris Velocity full foot fins, but wear them with neoprene boots (3 mil). Both of these fins seem to review well, and are lighter, faster, and more manouverable than their adjustable counterparts.....in addition to the fact that they are a lot more affordable.

The only info I could find on the subject was a scubadiving mag review...

"We tried an experiment. Two testers wore booties inside two models of full-foots and made several speed runs. They had to use slightly larger sizes to accommodate the booties, but the fins seemed to be otherwise identical to the smaller sizes they had worn without booties earlier. In particular, the blade sizes looked the same.

The result? The speeds were virtually the same with booties and without, for both testers and both pairs of fins. Wearing booties inside the fins seemed to make no difference.

This suggests that eliminating the mushy booties is not the real reason for the full-foot advantage. Their light weight and the fact that they cup the heel are probably more important."

Any thoughts?

I use the aeris Velocity full foot fin with neoprene socks for my warm water diving. I was very pleased with the result. I like the full foot fin for lower travel weight, and less leg fatigue after a week of liveaboard diving. The neoprene socks killed two birds with one stone - they prevented any chafing on my foot, and they made the fins fit perfectly since my foot was between sizes.

[jcass]

I had exactly the same question. I am looking for a warm weather, travel fin for snorkeling. Some entries over rocky beaches. Was leaning toward a full foot fin with a sock or bootie of some kind so I could wear the bootie into the water and then put the fin on.
Read the same article recommending Mares Plana Avanti Tre, the Oceanic Caribe and Aeris Velocity so have been looking for them on the net.
WHere is a good internet site for buying these fins and what sock/bootie would amnyone recommend? Would fin size go up one full size with a bootie?
Or, has anyone got a better idea?
THanks for any suggestions.